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[Greg]

[QUOTE username=DaveB userid=8923052 postid=1332966200]
... You seem to be taking a more positive approach than others Greg... 
[/QUOTE]

In a town filled with Prados and Rangers, i am keeping my fingers crossed that Ineos can get the Grenadier to happen.
Otherwise it will have to be an old Defender Perentie to use as my zombie apocalypse vehicle.

 

 

[Bushguide]

Dave B
Ineos Australia need to establish some contact points in Mt Isa, Tennant Creek NT, Katherine NT, Alice Springs NT, and Broom WA. and perhaps one in Weipa Qld. Without that sort of coverage its simply not a good look particularly with such a new vehicle.The vehicle testing done so-far, is fine but each vehicle would only clock up a few thousand kilometres .... certainly under 10,000 I would guess and at that stage they are virtually New Cars, so you would expect that nothing of major concern would pop up. I suspect thats why Jaguar Rover Australia (JRA) used to turn over after 12 months, their vehicles allocated to their High Priced Help (ie JRA CEO's etc)

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=Les Hiddins  Bushguide userid=8850676 postid=1332966252]Dave B
Ineos Australia need to establish some contact points in Mt Isa, Tennant Creek NT, Katherine NT, Alice Springs NT, and Broom WA. and perhaps one in Weipa Qld. Without that sort of coverage its simply not a good look particularly with such a new vehicle.The vehicle testing done so-far, is fine but each vehicle would only clock up a few thousand kilometres .... certainly under 10,000 I would guess and at that stage they are virtually New Cars, so you would expect that nothing of major concern would pop up. I suspect thats why Jaguar Rover Australia (JRA) used to turn over after 12 months, their vehicles allocated to their High Priced Help (ie JRA CEO's etc)[/QUOTE]
If they pick up mining companies and government departments then no doubt they will but if they are only going to sell 5,000 vehicles in Australia total in 2023 then possibly 20 or maybe 50 maximum would pass through those locations in a year and then maybe 5 would need some kind of service or repair. How could anyone justify the cost in training, certifying and carrying parts etc. 
Particularly when any mechanic can do the work anyway. 

You have to take into account commercial common sense. 
If they do that then someone else will want them to set up in Blackwater or Charleville or Longreach. 
If your line in the sand is based on that then quite correctly you should say no to buying one. 

Keep in mind they are only building 45,000 vehicles a year for the entire world. That's a bad week for Toyota. 
The price will double if they have to pay for all this extra infrastructure

The vehicle is not for everyone 

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=Greg userid=8995637 postid=1332966248]

In a town filled with Prados and Rangers, i am keeping my fingers crossed that Ineos can get the Grenadier to happen.
Otherwise it will have to be an old Defender Perentie to use as my zombie apocalypse vehicle.

 [/QUOTE] A tricked up Perentie is a pretty good choice. Throw $40K of upgrades/maintenance at it and you will be escaping those zombies for another 25 years 

 

[grenadierboy]

DaveB - I agree. 

In fact the Australian Grenadier numbers are likely to be less than you state, at least for the first year.

The INEOS rep I spoke to late last year said Australia had initially been allocated 1,000 cars from the first years estimated production (commencement to 30 June 2023) of 15,000.

However, he said the first year's production could be easily increased, as there is lots of spare capacity in the Hambach plant, if early demand (I assume meaning signed contracts), surges past initial estimates and that after a couple of years total estimated production is 35,000.  They have to sell 25,000 a year to turn a profit.

Even assuming the Grenadier is a real success, I reckon INEOS is unlikely to sell more than 2,000-3,000 a year.

Remember that LR only sold about 600-700 of the old style defenders a year in Australia until production stopped. That is essentially the Grenadier market plus cannibalising a portion (small?) of Toyota LC market (how many per year?).

 

[DenisM]

I live in so-called "inner Brisbane" in the Rd Hill area. In the past few months I've noticed several "classic" Defenders now regularly parked on the street...I've  lived here about 23 yrs and wandering the streets on my "exercise regime" had noticed one or two which are still around, but suddenly the marque seems  to have multiplied !??.   Maybe when my Grenadier arrives the closet Deefers will sense an intruder and  swarm like like the blackbirds in Alfred Hitchcock's movie "The birds"!?
 

 

[cheswick]

[QUOTE username=Mark Evans  grenadierboy userid=8954799 postid=1332966824]DaveB - I agree. 

In fact the Australian Grenadier numbers are likely to be less than you state, at least for the first year.

The INEOS rep I spoke to late last year said Australia had initially been allocated 1,000 cars from the first years estimated production (commencement to 30 June 2023) of 15,000.

However, he said the first year's production could be easily increased, as there is lots of spare capacity in the Hambach plant, if early demand (I assume meaning signed contracts), surges past initial estimates and that after a couple of years total estimated production is 35,000.  They have to sell 25,000 a year to turn a profit.

Even assuming the Grenadier is a real success, I reckon INEOS is unlikely to sell more than 2,000-3,000 a year.

Remember that LR only sold about 600-700 of the old style defenders a year in Australia until production stopped. That is essentially the Grenadier market plus cannibalising a portion (small?) of Toyota LC market (how many per year?).
[/QUOTE]

Now that LC300 has effectively been removed from the Australian market, it will be very interesting how those ~14,000 people choose to spend their money (or not maybe). Not to mention the ridiculous (3 years+) wait times on 70 series which sells around 10,000 units per year. 

Considering that a new order placed today won't make it here until July 2023 and no one has even been able to test drive one yet, its probably safe to say that within the next few months all of the 2023 production will be spoken for. If they do need to ramp up demand further into the future they can always bring forward the dual cab.

I reckon their real issue will be how many units they can pump out of Hambach every year as I can't imagine they'll be short on the demand side. I am a bit of an optimist ?

 

[Bushguide]

The situation with Toyota and their supply problem, is a God Send for Ineos if they care to take care of the opportunity in the bush. Land Rover have nothing to offer the bush these days but Ineos do and they should not be too timid in taking care of that situation. By the way the price of second hand 70 series is going through the roof, far exceeding the new car price. Come on Ineos, heres your chance.

 

[DaveB]

The biggest problem Ineos have Les is that they only have a small manufacturing capacity and they have a lot of orders already. 
The US opens to orders in 2023 so that will no doubt take a huge supply. 
I think the absolute maximum capacity of the plant is 45,000 per year and if they are adding the dual cab ute and long wheelbase versions next year this eats into that capacity as well.
I bet they wish they could make more.
Once the Smart Car manufacturing finishes they should have more capacity but the rest of the area is farmland 
 

 

[cheswick]

[QUOTE username=Les Hiddins  Bushguide userid=8850676 postid=1332972023]The situation with Toyota and their supply problem, is a God Send for Ineos if they care to take care of the opportunity in the bush. Land Rover have nothing to offer the bush these days but Ineos do and they should not be too timid in taking care of that situation. By the way the price of second hand 70 series is going through the roof, far exceeding the new car price. Come on Ineos, heres your chance.[/QUOTE]

I saw a bog standard 79 (RRP ~75k) disappear from a local dealer that was listed for 123k (AUD to be clear for non-aussies) last week. As you said Les - no better time than now to capitalise on this situation. Get in there Sir Jim ?

 

[OGrid]

[QUOTE username=Les Hiddins  Bushguide userid=8850676 postid=1332966252]Dave B
Ineos Australia need to establish some contact points in Mt Isa, Tennant Creek NT, Katherine NT, Alice Springs NT, and Broom WA. and perhaps one in Weipa Qld. Without that sort of coverage its simply not a good look particularly with such a new vehicle.The vehicle testing done so-far, is fine but each vehicle would only clock up a few thousand kilometres .... certainly under 10,000 I would guess and at that stage they are virtually New Cars, so you would expect that nothing of major concern would pop up. I suspect thats why Jaguar Rover Australia (JRA) used to turn over after 12 months, their vehicles allocated to their High Priced Help (ie JRA CEO's etc)[/QUOTE]

Hi Les,

Tennant Creek I’m a little surprised at. Did a quick look and didn’t see Toyota representation there (very small town). Katherine would be nice, saves the trip up to Darwin and back. Broome would be ideal - I had a LR3 and while there was no service centre in Broome I had a very good service there through another centre. 

 

[OGrid]

[QUOTE username=Les Hiddins  Bushguide userid=8850676 postid=1332972023]The situation with Toyota and their supply problem, is a God Send for Ineos if they care to take care of the opportunity in the bush. Land Rover have nothing to offer the bush these days but Ineos do and they should not be too timid in taking care of that situation. By the way the price of second hand 70 series is going through the roof, far exceeding the new car price. Come on Ineos, heres your chance.[/QUOTE]

Spot on Les…opportunity is very much there.

 

[DCPU]

I love Australia day and we usually have a BBQ with all our friends around, from about 10 different countries.
We fly the flag, but if the flag was changed we would fly the new one, if someone put it back to front or as happened a couple of years ago one person brought a New Zealand flag by mistake, then we laugh about it. It's the country and the people we love, the flag is just a current symbol. My grandfather fought in the first world war, my father fought in the Korean war and my son has been in the Army for the last 15 years. None of them fought for the flag, they all are there for their country and their mates.

But you never fly the correct flag anyway...

 

[DaveB]

But you never fly the correct flag anyway...

View attachment 7792290

At the risk of being controversial........that isn't our flag.
If it was we would fly it.

 

[DCPU]

The biggest problem Ineos have Les is that they only have a small manufacturing capacity and they have a lot of orders already.
The US opens to orders in 2023 so that will no doubt take a huge supply.
I think the absolute maximum capacity of the plant is 45,000 per year and if they are adding the dual cab ute and long wheelbase versions next year this eats into that capacity as well.
I bet they wish they could make more.

50k output on 3 shifts apparently:

"“We’re planning on 25,000 to 30,000 a year when we get up to peak,” he [Mark Tennant] told us. “We can build more, that’s on a two-shift pattern.

On three shifts, we could do 50,000, but we’ve said from the beginning, this is a niche proposition, we’re not taking on the big boys. What we’ve said is there’s a white space in this market because a number of other vehicles that used to inhabit it have departed and we need to have a business case that works on niche numbers.

Obviously, we’ll be thrilled if we start having discussions about needing a third shift, that’s great but it’s not something you put in the business plan from day one.”

 

[DCPU]

At the risk of being controversial........that isn't our flag.
If it was we would fly it.

You're completely right of course, it was a little off topic... apologies.

 

[cheswick]

But you never fly the correct flag anyway...

View attachment 7792290

Sorry mate but you may not understand that this flag was created in the 70’s to represent Australian Aboriginals and specifically the land rights movement. It is an ethnicity specific flag not a national flag and is often flown alongside the Torres Straight Islander flag and Australian flag as a recognition of the “First Nations” people. Best not virtue signal when you don’t fully understand.

 

[DCPU]

Really loving the ladder (almost looks incomplete without it). Hoping for a matching factory roof rack.

It looks like the two people who had responsibility for each part never actually told each other what they were doing.

Square/rectangular profile and sharp angles on the roof rack but round profile and radiused angles on the ladder.

 

[DCPU]

Sorry mate but you may not understand that this flag was created in the 70’s to represent Australian Aboriginals and specifically the land rights movement. It is an ethnicity specific flag not a national flag and is often flown alongside the Torres Straight Islander flag and Australian flag as a recognition of the “First Nations” people. Best not virtue signal when you don’t fully understand.

Thanks for mansplaining...

but not knowing the difference between nations and states.

 

[emax]

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