Long distance higher speed driving

[Saschi]

Luckily we here in Germany do not (yet) have a speedlimit on our Autobahn. It is easy to drive the Grenadier up to 160 km/h, no problems at all!

 

[Boston Boy]

There seem to be a lot of negatives against this car, many are small issues that have been blown out of all proportion IMO.
We have had GWagons, 2010 and 2021 models - the 2010 had recirculating ball steering and handled exactly like the Grenadier.
Point I am trying to make is that these had a massive following, few complained about the steering and when you stuck a supercharger or later turbo, nobody seemed to complain despite them being a definite handful on the road.
The biggest disadvantage of the Grenadier I find is its poor turning circle but even then it’s something that you take into consideration and easy to overcome - just don’t take it where you need to be able to manoeuvre in tight spaces, small car parks for example.
Motorway driving is fine despite a few corrections when pressing on. Its the exact opposite of one of my EV cars where the slightest movement of the wheel has an immediate impact on the steering which I think is more of a safety issue.
If I thought it was an issue it would be gone, fact it is still on the drive is testimony to the fact its acceptable.

"just don’t take it where you need to be able to manoeuvre in tight spaces, small car parks for example." or tight single track paths?

 

[Kruegerruda]

I love the steering! Heavy wind and snow today, motorway around 110 - 130km/h, absolutely no problem. One finger on the steering wheel. BFG ATs. Relax driving. Music on, warm back. Perfect.

Compared with my experience with a Jeep JK: In original trim it was a nightmare! Have to spend a lot of money to get a car which drive in a straight line. Or even worser with my older Landrover 90...

 

[klarie]

I already reported about my experience on motorway, aka Autobahn after 1000kms on odo. Confirming @Saschi s opinion the recirculating ball steering is no problem on Autobahn on higher speeds. What was a bit disturbing but rather size of tyre than steering are worn out country roads with grooves from HGV lorries / heavy truck so there is here and there some correction needed when the tyres are lingering in grooves. But travelling on high speed is no issue. Again remember former famous Italian sports car Iso Grifo was equipped with recirculating ball steering and at its time a super sport car set for 275km/h. About 170 mph.. so far on steering.

 

[Roach]

I love the steering! Heavy wind and snow today, motorway around 110 - 130km/h, absolutely no problem. One finger on the steering wheel. BFG ATs. Relax driving. Music on, warm back. Perfect.

Compared with my experience with a Jeep JK: In original trim it was a nightmare! Have to spend a lot of money to get a car which drive in a straight line. Or even worser with my older Landrover 90...

Thanks for the input. Those were some of the words I was looking for (one finger on the steering wheel)

 

[Krabby]

Thanks for the input. Those were some of the words I was looking for (one finger on the steering wheel)

Have you decided whether or not to get a Gren? I know you cancelled your preorder but were looking around too. Just curious where you stand and more importantly, why? Your perspective could be help to others.

 

[Roach]

Have you decided whether or not to get a Gren? I know you cancelled your preorder but were looking around too. Just curious where you stand and more importantly, why? Your perspective could be help to others.

@Krabby good question. We had three on pre-order, first one arrived without a hitch...or I should say that the hitch was missing. I guess I hit the wrong button when configuring but not having a hitch was a show stopper. Adding an aftermarket hitch didn't make sense; wiring, control module/firmware changes, maybe even spring differences and all for free. The second and third vehicles are now at the dealer and configured, for the most part, workable solutions. I've ordered a third to back-fill the first one that I cancelled and have corrected the missing hitch plus tweaked a few things that I now prefer after seeing the different configs in person: cloth vs leather, steel wheels with BFG's vs Alloy, Locking dif.

For my use:

Pros - unique look/brand, capable of a BDR trip, some towing capability, and I hope enough room to move a 4x8 sheet of plywood, and a cool overhead console that makes me want to put on a space suit

Cons - not a great daily driver (maybe not even a good daily driver for the LA area...MPG, Turning/Handling/Braking), simple things that were left off by "design" that I believe are minimum level for cars today. C'mon...no mirror in the visor, ventilated seats for trips to Vegas or Palm Springs!

My advice to those looking to order: As I recall, the RV's were lower for TM and FM (ref Santander)...not really a surprise but those that are looking to order might want to consider how you order. Also, if you don't suffer from FOMO then consider waiting for V2...I think it will be an improvement that would be worth an MSRP increase.

 

[Mr.Espresso]

@Krabby good question. We had three on pre-order, first one arrived without a hitch...or I should say that the hitch was missing. I guess I hit the wrong button when configuring but not having a hitch was a show stopper. Adding an aftermarket hitch didn't make sense; wiring, control module/firmware changes, maybe even spring differences and all for free. The second and third vehicles are now at the dealer and configured, for the most part, workable solutions. I've ordered a third to back-fill the first one that I cancelled and have corrected the missing hitch plus tweaked a few things that I now prefer after seeing the different configs in person: cloth vs leather, steel wheels with BFG's vs Alloy, Locking dif.

For my use:

Pros - unique look/brand, capable of a BDR trip, some towing capability, and I hope enough room to move a 4x8 sheet of plywood, and a cool overhead console that makes me want to put on a space suit

Cons - not a great daily driver (maybe not even a good daily driver for the LA area...MPG, Turning/Handling/Braking), simple things that were left off by "design" that I believe are minimum level for cars today. C'mon...no mirror in the visor, ventilated seats for trips to Vegas or Palm Springs!

My advice to those looking to order: As I recall, the RV's were lower for TM and FM (ref Santander)...not really a surprise but those that are looking to order might want to consider how you order. Also, if you don't suffer from FOMO then consider waiting for V2...I think it will be an improvement that would be worth an MSRP increase.

It is completely common, for the “captive lender” to drop RV’s in the more desirable models, to generate a higher profit. Artificially inflated RV’s, are a clear indication that the model has flopped in the market. The Ineos is a buy car, not a lease car.

 

[Roach]

It is completely common, for the “captive lender” to drop RV’s in the more desirable models, to generate a higher profit. Artificially inflated RV’s, are a clear indication that the model has flopped in the market. The Ineos is a buy car, not a lease car.

No argument from me about leasing. My comment wasn't about leasing though, it was that ordering a Wagon that had the features of a TM/FM might have a higher RV later. Just an indicator.

 

[Mr.Espresso]

No argument from me about leasing. My comment wasn't about leasing though, it was that ordering a Wagon that had the features of a TM/FM might have a higher RV later. Just an indicator.

I will predict the future for you! The Trialmaster will be the RV king in the real market, due to it being the factory “overlander” / locking diff model. Add to that, only 25-30% of orders in USA are for Trialmaster. So it’s rare as well.

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

@Krabby good question. We had three on pre-order, first one arrived without a hitch...or I should say that the hitch was missing. I guess I hit the wrong button when configuring but not having a hitch was a show stopper. Adding an aftermarket hitch didn't make sense; wiring, control module/firmware changes, maybe even spring differences and all for free. The second and third vehicles are now at the dealer and configured, for the most part, workable solutions. I've ordered a third to back-fill the first one that I cancelled and have corrected the missing hitch plus tweaked a few things that I now prefer after seeing the different configs in person: cloth vs leather, steel wheels with BFG's vs Alloy, Locking dif.

For my use:

Pros - unique look/brand, capable of a BDR trip, some towing capability, and I hope enough room to move a 4x8 sheet of plywood, and a cool overhead console that makes me want to put on a space suit

Cons - not a great daily driver (maybe not even a good daily driver for the LA area...MPG, Turning/Handling/Braking), simple things that were left off by "design" that I believe are minimum level for cars today. C'mon...no mirror in the visor, ventilated seats for trips to Vegas or Palm Springs!

My advice to those looking to order: As I recall, the RV's were lower for TM and FM (ref Santander)...not really a surprise but those that are looking to order might want to consider how you order. Also, if you don't suffer from FOMO then consider waiting for V2...I think it will be an improvement that would be worth an MSRP increase.

“No mirror”….! i always thought of our american cousins as hardy frontier men.. land of the free, home of the brave stuff.. No mirror should be a sign of rebellion…. Come on you American chaps, you’re letting the side down..

 

[Roach]

“No mirror”….! i always thought of our american cousins as hardy frontier men.. land of the free, home of the brave stuff.. No mirror should be a sign of rebellion…. Come on you American chaps, you’re letting the side down

Happy wife, happy life.

funny, it’s the kids that want the mirror (or their spouses). Personally, I’m afraid to look in a mirror.

 

[Spjnr]

I find the Grenadier great at motorway speeds. Steering is phenomenally good for a solid axle vehicle, and mines got bigger tyres than standard. Literally just drove 2 hours home on the motorway sat at 80mph, very comfortable

 

[YellowLab]

Just my two cents (take the pennies - they are worth more than my opinion) Hear so many comments about the turning radius of the Grenadier. For compare my X5d is 41.4 and the Grenadier is 44 - that does not see like a massive difference; am I missing something?

 

[pieter1475]

Most SUVs and other cars have independent front suspension (IFS) and rack-and-pinion steering. Both features are biased toward on-road performance. However, IFS does not allow for very good wheel articulation off-road, and is less durable if a vehicle is driven off-road a lot. Rack-and-pinion steering is very precise and allows for good handling when taking corners (on-road), but will translate bumps and rough conditions off-road through the steering wheel directly into the hands of the driver. This is very fatiguing and can even result in injury to a driver's hands.

The Grenadier has a solid front axle (SFA), and recirculating-ball steering. Both are biased toward off-road driving. The SFA provides for better wheel articulation, and - in general - is more durable than IFS. Recirculating-ball steering does not translate nearly as much feedback to the driver when off-road as does rack-and-pinion steering. The downside to the SFA and recirculating-ball steering is that it is not as precise on-road as IFS and rack-and-pinion steering.

The Grenadier is an off-road biased 4x4, and will never handle on-road as well as on-road biased SUVs like a Porsche Cayenne, a BMW X5, or a Range Rover. However, the Grenadier has excellent on-road handling for a vehicle with a SFA and recirculating-ball steering. Most people who have a lot of experience with vehicles of this design describe the Grenadier as maybe the best handling (on-road) of any SFA with recirculating-ball steering they have ever driven.

Ultimately, everyone has different preferences and tolerances. The best thing to do would be to take a Grenadier for a long on-road test drive. If you are accustomed to IFS and rack-and-pinion steering, the Grenadier will feel vague at first, and you will notice that you have to steer it our of corners - whereas in SUVs and cars the steering wheel wants to return to center on its own. Give it a little time, and you should be able to adapt, and after a bit, the steering will probably be something you do not notice at all. But the Grenadier will never drive like an SUV from Porsche, BMW, or Range Rover; it is designed to excel off-road, and no vehicle can do both at a high level.

I've had my Trialmaster for 5 or 6 weeks now. All on bitumen at the moment. It is fine to drive, given the all terrain tyres, I never feel wary or unsafe, after almost 4000 kms,I'm very pleased. Our Australian roads are bad but the vehicle rides well and is quiet inside.

 

[anand]

Just my two cents (take the pennies - they are worth more than my opinion) Hear so many comments about the turning radius of the Grenadier. For compare my X5d is 41.4 and the Grenadier is 44 - that does not see like a massive difference; am I missing something?

You're not missing anything...

 

[bemax]

I agree with Saschi. You can go on the Autobahn with 160 K pH without any problem, as long as the road is more or less straight. What you should not expect is that the car leans into curves like a Porsche at this pace. I wouldn’t either suggest sudden steering movements at higher speed as the negative aspects of the steering technology would cause some very unpleasant feeling of not having full control.
I tested fast left/right steering movements and various speeds. Over 110 KPH this became challenging

But driving straight on with 160 kph would be possible without any problems for around 500 km. Than the diesel tank would be empty…
I guess that means there’s no problem in other countries at all.

 

[YellowLab]

I feel like the next conversation will turn into driving at 120kph the Magic Mushroom handles better than the Slate Blue because the car looks better in that color - with replies around ‘but were you playing Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin at the time since the beat impacts steering input’

Were searching for definitive conclusions in matters of opinion and perception. The vehicle does what it does…..

 

[klarie]

I agree with Saschi. You can go on the Autobahn with 160 K pH without any problem, as long as the road is more or less straight. What you should not expect is that the car leans into curves like a Porsche at this pace. I wouldn’t either suggest sudden steering movements at higher speed as the negative aspects of the steering technology would cause some very unpleasant feeling of not having full control.
I tested fast left/right steering movements and various speeds. Over 110 KPH this became challenging

But driving straight on with 160 kph would be possible without any problems for around 500 km. Than the diesel tank would be empty…
I guess that means there’s no problem in other countries at all.

Indeed, visited my gunsmith today to pickup a new thermal optics. .. was about 80mls on Autobahn on up to 150km/h .. no issues so far. Ole spent the entire last week in its parking lot, however, was utterly cold when waked hin up, again condensate in main display and compass. Took a while until this disappeared. Average consumption over the entire journey 13.2 l D / 100km avg speed 96km/h .. 90% Autobahn.

 

[Mr.Espresso]

I feel like the next conversation will turn into driving at 120kph the Magic Mushroom handles better than the Slate Blue because the car looks better in that color - with replies around ‘but were you playing Pink Floyd or Lef Zeppelin at the time since the beat impacts steering input’

Were searching for definitive conclusions in matters of opinion and perception. The vehicle does what it does…..

My take, it’s a bunch of gun-shy people on this forum, who secretly want the Grenadier, but secretly don’t have the guts to spend the money. So they spend their days, on an anonymous forum, bitchin about shit, that really makes no difference. Indecisiveness is a disease…