Americas First impressions, Trialmaster.

[rovie]

I didn’t get a cooler from Red Noland but did get a very nice Pendleton Blanket. As other have said, i have plenty of coolers, but definitely needed another blanket for the IG. Always keep one in the car.

I like Pendleton blankets. I have seen a woman's Range Rover in Germany whose interior was lined with Pendleton fabrics.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Just had the checker plates fitted with black rivets. Thank you Quincy @Rusnak INEOS Grenadier for suggesting this.







Next on the list is a factor 55 hook, then some side steps.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

And before anyone asks, yes they will get used.



And I can confidently say the bonnet/hood passed the kid walking across it test with flying colors.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Last Monday, one of my judo friends ...
He: I saw a Grenadier like yours in Sint-Niklaas (city at about 40 km from my place) last week on Monday
Me: Same color?
He: Yes, same color, and as dirty as yours
Me: and you are sure it wasn't mine?
He: Yes, there were two children's seat in the back
Me: was it "that street, about that time?"
He (surprised): So, it was you?
Me: Yes, you know I have grandchildren, don't you?

 

[DaBull]

Just had the checker plates fitted with black rivets. Thank you Quincy @Rusnak INEOS Grenadier for suggesting this.

View attachment 7840276

View attachment 7840277

View attachment 7840278

Next on the list is a factor 55 hook, then some side steps.

Hi Stu, That looks great! DaBull

 

[[ Adam ]]

Just had the checker plates fitted with black rivets. Thank you Quincy @Rusnak INEOS Grenadier for suggesting this.

Love the look & utility, but I still don't understand why they are being riveted to the vehicle instead of using rivnuts.

 

[AZGrenadier]

Rivnuts would raise them away from the fender. Or are you saying to use the rivnut through both the checker plate and fender? That actually isn’t a bad idea. You could then bolt stuff on top of the plate.

 

[DenisM]

I have definitely noticed the twitchy steering has improved.
I had a truck once that came out of getting new ball joints and an alignment and it was all twitchy in the steering where it did not used to be.
Took it to a different alignment shop and they said the ball joints were over tightened. Loosened them to the proper torque spec and twitchyness went away.

Maybe the Gren just needs to break-in and loosen up just a bit.

Note... in case the alignment shop folk are puzzled: there are no ball joints on the Grenadier.... they've gone with king pins... as in a "proper" truck setup!

 

[Tazzieman]

And before anyone asks, yes they will get used.

View attachment 7840282

And I can confidently say the bonnet/hood passed the kid walking across it test with flying colors.

You know, they or a mate will have a little jump one day.
It might pop back out, if they don't crease it!

 

[[ Adam ]]

Rivnuts would raise them away from the fender. Or are you saying to use the rivnut through both the checker plate and fender? That actually isn’t a bad idea. You could then bolt stuff on top of the plate.

Just barely - and there should be a gasket between the metals anyway which would make up the difference.

I'd do an aluminum rivnuts into the aluminum fender... Certainly not a steel pop rivet. Galvanic corrosion is a thing.

 

[Beowulf]

Picked up my Trialmaster yesterday in Atlanta at Regal. They were exceptional to work with and even included a nice full size cooler for the trip back to Nashville (about 220 miles).

Several people have written about the steering and tracking. They often stated it was tiring and had to constantly be corrected on long drives. Having driven a lifted Rubicon with 35 inch and 37 inch tires for several years, I found it to drive much closer to my sedan. It was a pleasure to drive back and was no where near as tiring as driving that distance in my Jeep, lol.

It is amazing how tall it actually is. I am six foot and my wife is about 5'2'. We have Rock Slide Engineering Step Sliders on the Jeep and entry has never been an issue into the Jeep. But both of us found it to be challenging to get into it and even more getting out. My long term fear is how the edging of the seats will hold up to this transition of getting in and out. We have the rock sliders from Ineos on it now. But suspect that they will be replaced at some point as they offer no help getting into the cab.

View out the back is poor as has been stated elsewhere. But the view out the back of the Jeep with large tires is also poor and I have learned to compensate with the side mirrors. If anything, the IG is slightly better than the Jeep for parking as I do not have sensors on the Jeep rear bumper.

The lack of return to center with the steering wheel takes about a dozen turns before you naturally adapt to it. Honestly I did not even notice it until my wife mentioned after I got home so she could drive it.

Otherwise, I could not be happier with how it drove and handled. My wife has an off-road packaged Rivian and while her vehicle has greater tech and may ride slightly better, there is a certain je ne sais quoi that is hard to explain associated with the IG. When I stopped for lunch, on the way back, several people walked by it and asked what it was.

Honestly I wish I could find something to really complain about. But from the dealership experience to getting it home after 220 miles, I could not be happier with it.

Please keep us posted on our experience. I'm having a hard time between getting a Grenadier or JL/JT. I want to do the AluCab conversion top, so mostly thinking a JT if not the IG. Having driven Jeeps for over 3 decades, it's hard to offload anything else. Sadly, over those 3 decades, they have all been manuals, and the IG will never have a manual, or I'd already own it. Love to hear your experiences off-roading the IG and the crawl ratio as compared to your Rubicons.

 

[Mountain4x4]

With such small tires I bet the crawl ratio feels ok. Its just when you go to 35s.....4:1 is definitely the bomb, awesome ratio. So the winch comes with nothing? No hook, no whatever those fancy new things are that make you use a a shackle. I figured there would be something.

 

[Rubicon Maybe]

Please keep us posted on our experience. I'm having a hard time between getting a Grenadier or JL/JT. I want to do the AluCab conversion top, so mostly thinking a JT if not the IG. Having driven Jeeps for over 3 decades, it's hard to offload anything else. Sadly, over those 3 decades, they have all been manuals, and the IG will never have a manual, or I'd already own it. Love to hear your experiences off-roading the IG and the crawl ratio as compared to your Rubicons.

I decided to keep the Rubicon and the IG while getting rid of the BMW. The Rubicon is just a completely different vehicle from the IG. I doubt that I will ever outfit the IG in the way I have modified the Jeep. The IG will be more of an overlander and one that I will feel comfortable traveling multiple hours in, yet be able to explore new places off the path. The Jeep is more a Rock Crawler and something used on a weekend to enjoy. The IG has the added capability to allow for the Jeep to become a trailer queen. So letting each be what they are, I am able to enjoy both.

 

[[ Adam ]]

So the winch comes with nothing? No hook, no whatever those fancy new things are that make you use a a shackle. I figured there would be something.

Resist the urge to introduce metal where it's not needed. A simple soft shackle is sufficient.

Hooks are a fashion statement looking for a recovery solution.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Resist the urge to introduce metal where it's not needed. A simple soft shackle is sufficient.

Hooks are a fashion statement looking for a recovery solution.

But soft shackles can be so fiddley. Although I only have one older version for dealing with 2wd and AWD street cars in the way during snow. I know newer ones are easier....Just so easy to slap a hook back on to the line and go, or clip to a shackle....Someone has to teach and old dog new tricks I guess!

 

[stickshifter]

Please keep us posted on our experience. I'm having a hard time between getting a Grenadier or JL/JT. I want to do the AluCab conversion top, so mostly thinking a JT if not the IG. Having driven Jeeps for over 3 decades, it's hard to offload anything else. Sadly, over those 3 decades, they have all been manuals, and the IG will never have a manual, or I'd already own it. Love to hear your experiences off-roading the IG and the crawl ratio as compared to your Rubicons.

As I'm sure you know, 1st gear in the petrol Grenadier is 5.25:1, the transfer case ratio is 2.5:1, the axle ratio is 4.1:1, and so the crawl ratio is about 54:1 - see chart below:


Meanwhile, the crawl ratio in the Jeep JL/JT Rubicon is around 77:1, and depending on how you spec your vehicle, it can be as low as 100:1

If you are "Beowulf" from Expedition Portal, then you know already that the crawl ratio in the Grenadier is more suited to general off-roading, sand, forest service roads, etc. while the Jeep Rubicon crawl ratio is much better for rock crawling, and for driving up and down steep inclines. A low crawl ratio (between 70 and 100:1) is simply awesome for technical and steep terrain.

I am also a Jeep guy, though I've had my fair share of Toyotas. For the trails we regularly drive in Colorado, I much prefer the 4:1 transfer case, and the really low crawl ratio. I'm not a Grenadier owner (yet), but I've had two off-road test-drives, and one on-road test drive. Off-road, I found that I needed to use the brakes to slow down the vehicle on steep descents. I chose not to use hill-descent control, as I just prefer to let engine-braking and low gears do the work of slowing the vehicle - if possible. The Grenadier's hill descent control is supposed to be really good, but some folks still prefer engine-braking and gearing to get the job done.

I really like many attributes of the Grenadier, and in many ways it is superior to the Jeep Wrangler. Unfortunately, for the type of driving I do, I don't see an advantage to the 2.5:1 transfer case.

Brad - from Trail Recon - recently posted a video in which he comments on the crawl ratio. He is also a Jeep guy. That video is at the bottom of this post. It is worth noting that the Grenadier he drove is on slightly larger tires (~33 inches I believe), and that will result in a slightly higher crawl ratio (100:1 is "lower" than 54:1), meaning that the vehicle will go a little faster down a hill.

A lot of his comments are similar to those I posted in my post-drive review which you might have seen on Expedition Portal: https://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/ineos-grenadier.214546/page-59#post-3100811

Trail Recon review:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RarHLicvfWM

 

[[ Adam ]]

I chose not to use hill-descent control, as I just prefer to let engine-braking and low gears do the work of slowing the vehicle - if possible. The Grenadier's hill descent control is supposed to be really good, but some folks still prefer engine-braking and gearing to get the job done.

When I was coming down the Shaffer Trail in UT, I used the combination of L & Hill Descent Control on the way down. I found it convenient to set it to the minimum speed I wanted to go and then use the accelerator to speed up where I wanted to go faster. As I let off the accelerator HDC & engine compression would slow me back down to a comfortable speed.

A lower crawl would have been great - and perhaps the aftermarket will provide (portals ) but for what I think the Grenadier is designed for - sufficient.

 

[stickshifter]

Y

When I was coming down the Shaffer Trail in UT, I used the combination of L & Hill Descent Control on the way down. I found it convenient to set it to the minimum speed I wanted to go and then use the accelerator to speed up where I wanted to go faster. As I let off the accelerator HDC & engine compression would slow me back down to a comfortable speed.

A lower crawl would have been great - and perhaps the aftermarket will provide (portals ) but for what I think the Grenadier is designed for - sufficient.

When you think about the Grenadier as an "overlander" - as opposed to a "rock-crawler" then yes, the 2.5:1 transfer-case makes a lot of sense. To compensate for the 54:1 crawl ratio, Ineos provides hill descent control (HDC) to slow the vehicle on steep descents. This is one strategy, and it is an understandable one - if you want a low-range that isn't too low for general off-road driving.

However, if you were hoping that the focus on simplicity and minimal electronics would dominate the design of the Grenadier (as is stated in the Grenadier mission), then the choice to go with a 2.5:1 transfer-case and HDC is a bit disappointing. A transfer-case with lower gearing would make HDC unnecessary, and would be a "simpler" less computer-controlled solution to steep descents and technical terrain. I, for one, don't really like fiddling with buttons while off-road, and want to rely on electronics as little as possible. My preference would have been for a manual transmission, and manually activated diff-lockers (e.g. Ox Lockers) to go along with the manual lever for the transfer-case, and the manual handbrake. As the legendary Jagger once said, "you can't always get what you want"

I understand the decision made by Ineos, and I recognize it is better for many owners, but its not better for everyone. The Rocky Mountains have lots of steep trails, and they are, well... rocky. A low, low-range is so much more relaxing. In the summer, we often leave the car at midnight, or 2:00 am to get into a rock or snow climb, or to hike up multiple peaks. At the end of a long day of climbing or hiking, getting in the truck and driving down a long, steep, rocky trail is pretty chill when your crawl ratio is around 80:1, and its much more demanding when its around 50:1. In other words, a low, low-range isn't just for a "rock-crawler" - it makes regular use of the vehicle much more enjoyable, comfortable, and safe if the trails you regularly drive are in a place like the Rocky Mountains. Different strokes for different folks.

As far as portal axles go, that really isn't a conversion a lot of people will consider. It is a fairly significant modification to what is - from the factory - a very well-thought-out vehicle. Its also quite costly. Lastly, portal axles can suffer a lack of lubrication at highway speeds, which can lead to problems, and there are more moving parts in a portal axle that need that lubrication. A traditional solid front axle does a better job straddling the on-road / off-road multi-use requirement the majority of owners will demand.

 

[Beckers]

I picked up my Trialmster last week from @Rusnak INEOS Grenadier, thanks go out to Quincy, Barby and Aren. They did a stellar job in the pouring rain to get me out the door, and with a full tank of gas as well with minimal fuss and total reassurance that they had my back should I need anything. Thanks guys.

So to the Grenadier, as a few of you may know I had the pleasure of an extended drive with Greg Clarke in September. The counter to this was that the vehicle I was driving was the one to be submitted to the governing body that decides residuals so it was basically "stu if you as much as blemish the seat leather then were in the kak" needless to say I held back and drove like someone auditioning for a hearse driving gig at uber undertakers. Having said that I thought I'd hit a low branch at one point. But you'll have to buy me a few beers for that story.


Anyway, enough about that, onto my Grenadier.

First 50 miles

Finally got the seat adjusted, thats better, optimum position keep raising until the left arm rests comfortably on the door card.
Loving the header unit although the glare is a bit of an issue.
Hvac will be a finely tuned affair it seems.
Driving through city traffic is no problem.
Yep this US version has the Jean Mercer drivers side waterfall.
Kids desperate to have a ride, McDonalds drive through, whole foods run and the lope down to the beach all accomplished with sufficient interest from other motorists.
Those heated seats are volcanic
Chirp chirp, actually pretty handy in town and I'm almost used to it by now.


First 100 miles
I really need to get some side steps, the door seals will get annihilated without them.
That engine is a raspy old fellow with the windows down, or safer windows open.
This old? girl definitely has character, thats a relief and totally unquantifiable until now.
Audio while isn’t symphonic is perfectly capable for this vehicle. Granted a serious upper range of my hearing has been obliterated thanks to Mr ABB it sounds fine, put it in rock mode on the equalizer and off you go.


First 500 miles+
(La to phoenix)
Freeway speeds the vehicle is a bit tram liney in the truck lane especially, not surprising with the rubber to be honest.
ADAS which I think useful in town to help me keep my license is a mild nuisance on the freeway or interstate, easy fix, switch it off. Wished I’d set a shortcut, cant find the menu option driving.
Highway speeds the grenadier with a rai (water spout) is as loud as a Disco 4, now that could be down to crap door seals on the disco but I didn’t think it any louder. I did option carpet and that will make a difference with the sound deadening at least a little, that and the boot/trunk is full of bags.
Ohh, I’ve Sirius, works fine and there were no drop outs, unlike the JLR products that I use.
At speed the Grenadier requires attention, its not a passive drive by any means, its almost twitchy, but ill put that down to my lack of experience overcompensating with the steering and tyre pressures, they were a bit high. You need to be very attentive over 80 so it seems. Having said that the petrol engine is more than capable and it’ll pick up its coat tails and run and it sounds good under acceleration as well. Thinking on that I don't think I’ve heard a bad BMW 6 ever…
Theres some droning at 2k revs at highway speed, it sounds like its exhaust related rather than vibration as under load at 2k revs its not there, and its definitely not a gearbox thing. Easily fixed by driving 60 or 70+ not 65….
HVAC, well, it lets you know the temp you’ve set it at and is in auto but the temp swings seem to be a bit odd, its hot then cold then hot. Hopefully it’ll settle.
The changing points of the gearbox seem a bit high to me, it definitely holds onto the gears. That being said the ZF software I know adjusts the to the driver characteristics with the shifting
After the last 350 miles the battery is at 98% and everything works without a single error or warning.
Love a bit of turbo while when spooling up under load


First 1500 miles…….

Faith makes all things possible... love makes all things easy. Dwight L. Moody

 

[Mountain4x4]

Well said. Its really hard to describe the technical abilities that a 4:1 low range enables. I installed a 2:96 I believe, Ozzie gear set in my Montero to replace the terrible 1:92. But when I went full on Rock Trac 4:1 swap it blew my mind. Its just so much easier to make delicate moves with it. HDC is just a gimic to me. I used it only one time in 2005 coming off something on Hells Revenge as a gag with my feet hanging out the door due to the novelty of it. And Nissan engineers taking photos. But that is all it is, a novelty, like crawl control and traction control modes. They are of little use to a seasoned four wheeler. The gearing also saves your brakes, and provides COOLING. With larger tires I expect the Grenadier to over heat. And those engineers would swear they did brutal testing. But reaching your gearing limits in the Rocky Mountains at high altitude or or the sizzling hot High Sierras in the summer is the REAL test. With the 2:92 and a 3 row radiator I had to manually turn on the AC fan on the Montero under those conditions. Now I no longer use it. If a rig can make it up Mount Blanca with out over heating, you are solid for Colorado folks. But even Imogene Pass can be taxing. 2000 and newer Monteros/ Pajeros could not make it up due to over heating as they raised the differential ratio too high. I will say, 5:25 first gear is pretty dang good though!