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insurance

bemax

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Does anybody of you has an idea how the insurance works for a new car like the IG.As I do not know how it works in different countries I am especially interested in experiences from Germany. But it will be interesting to see how this is handled worldwide! Will the insurances guess the rates for the start? Or will they compare their IG to similar cars and offer similar rates? My insurance told me that this would probably be the way the headquarter will act.
Nevertheless the agent was not very sure.
Has anybody some knowledge to share?
best regards 
 

emax

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I don't know their formulas. But as a rough guess a BMW 3.0 Diesel X5 4x4 might be a good comparison to get a quote.

May be I'll ask the HUK (German insurance) in the next days to add the Grenadier to their lists.

If others (Germans of course) do so as well this might increase the pressure ...
 

acwiltshire

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I was wondering if I  the UK,  those of us who have ordered should band together and try to negotiate with a specialist insurance broker.
Mileages won't be high I guess and our ages will be high !!!
Any thoughts from those in the industry?
 

emax

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You're an optimist.
 

DaveB

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Insurance is partly about the vehicle and mostly about the driver here in Australia.
I have excellent driving history and no claims at fault so I get great discount on premiums, I also use a “pensioners only” insurance company even though I am not a pensioner and still work. My wife qualifies for us. 
My current vehicle also has a very low rate of crashes or theft so that makes it cheaper 
I also live in a good area and park overnight in a locked garage so cheaper again. 
The security system on the Grenadier is a big plus and should also help reduce the costs. 
If you drive off road then you have no insurance anyway unless it is “gazetted ” or listed as a public road, such as national parks in Australia. 
Unless of course you get specialist off road insurance. 

Ineos should be working to get their vehicles and brand listed with all the major insurance companies. 

As for getting together with a group for insurance……two or three people with a bad history will bring the whole group down and the costs up.

I should also add that the cost of insurance really starts after you make a claim.
Cheap insurance premiums usually come with very poor coverage and support
 

emax

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This mostly the same here in Germany. My quote is at 30% after many years without claims. We have six vehicles under contract there, our house is insured there, garage, rural (=good) area, only 12000 Km/year and the drivers are only my wife and me and thus above 25 years.Aand the car is payed by me, no loan.

This all contributes to a lower rate, and as it seems, insurances elsewhere in the world apply the same arithmetic.
 

DaveB

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[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332927414]This mostly the same here in Germany. My quote is at 30% after many years without claims. We have six vehicles under contract there, our house is insured there, garage, rural (=good) area, only 12000 Km/year and the drivers are only my wife and me and thus above 25 years.Aand the car is payed by me, no loan.

This all contributes to a lower rate, and as it seems, insurances elsewhere in the world apply the same arithmetic.[/QUOTE]
By the time this arrives my wife will be 64 and I will be 60.
We have two cars , two houses and our contents all insured with the same company so very similar.
I will use this for work but still under 12,000km per year. 
I have to finance it for tax reasons as my company pays a car allowance to me and pays for the fuel. 
Insurance, maintenance, interest and costs are all tax deductible and I claim depreciation on the car over 5 years. 
I will either trade-in (part exchange??)  my current vehicle or just sell it privately and add it to the deposit. 

Insurance is a minor cost but I also make sure I have maximum cover, replacement hire car, windscreen etc.
Luckily this vehicles windscreen doesn’t seem to have all the fancy stuff most cars have these days which make the replacement windscreens ridiculously priced and hard to replace. 

Try to get a new land rover windscreen replaced in a remote location. 
 

emax

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My tax consultant recommend me to buy it privately and write invoices (e.g. once a year) to my Ltd. based on the percentage of company use and private use. Though this means that I can not claim back VAT, it has some advantages:
  • First of all, if I'd buy the car in few years from my company, I'd have to pay VAT for the price I'd get it for. This is not the case with the proposed concept. And the car might be quite value stable. 
  • Secondly, I do not have to pay tax for the fictitious 1% monthly income equivalent (= 12% p. year) which is due if I do not want to write a detailed logbook of every private use. This logbook is almost impossible to be maintained correctly without making mistakes according to the rules: They have meticulously shaped this rules in a way which allows any tax officer to reject it upon a tax audit - in case he doesn't find anything else. In that case I would have to bear all (!) costs privately. And forget about complaints or even legal action against such a refusal ...
  • This in turn means that I don't have to pay health insurance (!) for the yearly 12% income equivalent ... You have to pay this here for any kind of income, and for me as being self-employed, I'd pay the full quote of 15% of this fictitious income (which for the calculation limited to about 5000€ per month) and an additional fee for care insurance (currently this sums up to about 900 € / month).
  • I can write the invoice based on full costs, i.e.  depreciation, fuel, tax, insurance, repairs, tires, oil, maintenance etc.
I'll have to calculate that ...
 

Sebastian

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[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332927637]My tax consultant recommend me to buy it privately and write invoices (e.g. once a year) to my Ltd. based on the percentage of company use and private use. Though this means that I can not claim back VAT, it has some advantages:
  • First of all, if I'd buy the car in few years from my company, I'd have to pay VAT for the price I'd get it for. This is not the case with the proposed concept. And the car might be quite value stable. 
  • Secondly, I do not have to pay tax for the fictitious 1% monthly income equivalent (= 12% p. year) which is due if I do not want to write a detailed logbook of every private use. This logbook is almost impossible to be maintained correctly without making mistakes according to the rules: They have meticulously shaped this rules in a way which allows any tax officer to reject it upon a tax audit - in case he doesn't find anything else. In that case I would have to bear all (!) costs privately. And forget about complaints or even legal action against such a refusal ...
  • This in turn means that I don't have to pay health insurance (!) for the yearly 12% income equivalent ... You have to pay this here for any kind of income, and for me as being self-employed, I'd pay the full quote of 15% of this fictitious income (which for the calculation limited to about 5000€ per month) and an additional fee for care insurance (currently this sums up to about 900 € / month).
  • I can write the invoice based on full costs, i.e.  depreciation, fuel, tax, insurance, repairs, tires, oil, maintenance etc.
I'll have to calculate that ...[/QUOTE]

I work with taxes and would do it (with this car) exactly how your tax consultant recommended it to you. Regarding the first point you would also have to consider that the company would have to tax the gain upon the sale to you (which would equal the sales price after six years since fully depreciated).

If someone goes for a leasing contract instead of buying the case might me different - my tendency would be to do the leasing through the company (at least in my case...as always it depends on the individual circumstances).
 

emax

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Thank you Sebastian.

Leasing is ok if liquidity is an issue. For me, it thankfully isn't.

Perhaps you can answer an uncertainty I still have. Concerning that uncertainty I have written an Email to my tax consultant, but this may take a few days to get answered.

So: If I buy the car privately, the Ltd. can not write off the car. So far no questions.

But if I write a full-cost invoice, what's about the real deprecation of the car? Can I charge the real market-loss for the billing period (of course pro rata)?
 

emax

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Just got the answer: I can indeed charge the write-off (pro rata) of 1/6th of the puchase price per year. :)

This time, he was really fast (though there is at the tax consultants currently a big mess going on here in Germany as 35 million property tax notices will have to be calculated differently in the future... and so he's really not bored ...) ?
 

Sebastian

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yes first the corona subsidy programmes (still a lot of work since every single case from the last 2 years needs to be reviewed and calculated again) and now real estate property tax. Ah, almost forgot that we have a "normal" business as well ? Good that you got your answer already. Mine would have been the same ?
 

Sebastian

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Regarding leasing: one advantage I see is that you can just give the car back after the leasing period, so no risk that might come along with a new car producer (although I don't believe it is). I would consider leasing if there is a buy option in the end for a fixed price (fixed when entering the leasing contract) and the calculated interest / leasing premium is not too high. But I guess chances for such a model will not be too high so I will just buy it.
 

DaveB

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I changed to a specialist accountant 20 years ago for all my taxes and other business. Significantly better than a tax agent, in Australia at least, and not much more expensive. As their charges are also tax deductible that is not a problem. 
While myself and others have given comments on tax everyone’s situation is different and you should always talk to a good accountant before making any decisions. 
What works for me may be an absolute disaster for someone else. 
 

emax

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[QUOTE username=Sebastian userid=9004610 postid=1332927927]I would consider leasing if there is a buy option in the end for a fixed price (fixed when entering the leasing contract) ...[/QUOTE]

But you know, that this would break the "leasing" attribute ? It's a critical thing. For that reason you only get an"Andienungsrecht" instead of a "Vorkaufsrecht" normally.

(Andienungsrecht: hard to translate, kind of an "offer right" on the leasing company side. You have to buy it then for the offered price. "Vorkaufsrecht": right of preemption).
 

emax

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Dave, absolutely agree. Mine is excellent. He is dear and precious to me.

But I'd consider it dearer if he would be a bit less precious (i.e. expensive). ;-)
 

Grey Nomad

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Hello Everyone, I've been looking for the cost of insurance before purchasing the Grenadier. Most companies ask for the registration before quoting which is a pain. However if you live in Western Australia you can now go to the local insurer RAC and get a quote at https://rac.com.au/car-motoring/car-insurance . Press quote and follow the prompts and select car find instead of registration. Comes under INEOS in a pull down and has all the models. Looks like you'll need tco chat with them about accessories but the quote for my circumstances was quite reasonable.
Cheers Grey Nomad.
 

DaveB

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Hello Everyone, I've been looking for the cost of insurance before purchasing the Grenadier. Most companies ask for the registration before quoting which is a pain. However if you live in Western Australia you can now go to the local insurer RAC and get a quote at https://rac.com.au/car-motoring/car-insurance . Press quote and follow the prompts and select car find instead of registration. Comes under INEOS in a pull down and has all the models. Looks like you'll need tco chat with them about accessories but the quote for my circumstances was quite reasonable.
Cheers Grey Nomad.
APIA is by far the cheapest that I have found so far and also offers premium features as standard at $1,158 covering all accessories I have chosen up to $121K cover with a $600 excess and 1 free windscreen no excess
RAC Q are second best at $1,431 with $650 excess and don't cover all accessories but do cover one free windscreen no excess. They went up to $2,063 with agreed value $121K
YOUI were a pain to get a quote from nd required filling in information online and then call and take another 30minutes. They were $2,031 with a $1,000 excess charge extra premium to reduce windscreen excess to $50. They would only cover the accessories they had listed from the factory. Not the dealer fitted accessories.
 

DCPU

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They would only cover the accessories they had listed from the factory. Not the dealer fitted accessories.

That's an interesting differentiation, especially as the items are all covered under the same invoice paid to the same entity.
 

DaveB

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That's an interesting differentiation, especially as the items are all covered under the same invoice paid to the same entity.
Yes I queried that too but Youi have some extremely strange policies. They said anything fitted by the dealer is not listed on their system and would then be considered after market accessories and they might actually consider it as modified and not insure it.
The guy who called me has a Hilux he drives on Fraser etc so was quite good but he had never heard of the Grenadier.
He loved it but was not surprised they were much more expensive than other companies.
 
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