How to view the Grenadier in todays market?

[255/85]

Yeah -$50K or thereabouts but the Grenadier, as it sits, couldn't have been made for that price even without the minimal electronics. Ineos could've built a direct copy of the OD for that price but you wouldn't be driving one in the US.

 

[CRH]

Yeah -$50K or thereabouts but the Grenadier, as it sits, couldn't have been made for that price even without the minimal electronics. Ineos could've built a direct copy of the OD for that price but you wouldn't be driving one in the US.

Or EU, or UK.

 

[Jeremy996]

Yeah -$50K or thereabouts but the Grenadier, as it sits, couldn't have been made for that price even without the minimal electronics. Ineos could've built a direct copy of the OD for that price but you wouldn't be driving one in the US.

Or EU, or UK.

I have said it before, JLR did Ineos Automotive a huge favour by NOT selling the old Defender line; it was by any definition well past its use by date. The tooling was tired, the build massively manual and the structure wholly inadequate for passing crash tests, rollover tests or even just keeping the water out.
IA now need to consider what the development path is; do they look to add adaptive cruise for the markets that want it? Would enough people pay a premium for it to justify the development, testing and approval costs? The same thought process will have to be rolled out for every other toy that someone might want.

 

[CRH]

I have said it before, JLR did Ineos Automotive a huge favour by NOT selling the old Defender line; it was by any definition well past its use by date. The tooling was tired, the build massively manual and the structure wholly inadequate for passing crash tests, rollover tests or even just keeping the water out.
IA now need to consider what the development path is; do they look to add adaptive cruise for the markets that want it? Would enough people pay a premium for it to justify the development, testing and approval costs? The same thought process will have to be rolled out for every other toy that someone might want.

Hybrid systems are more important if they want to keep selling in Uk after 2030 and Eu after 2035.

 

[Mountain4x4]

You COULD make a truck for 50K, but it would have to be very light duty components. Think IFS front end, chain driven t case, paper thin tie rods, smaller frame, less towing capacity, rack and pinon, plastic bumpers, and so on. The primary cost of this rig is the heavy duty components. Thats why SAS is so expensive. I suppose additionally the volume would need to be higher. Between inflation during Covid and not anticipating how much the heavy duty components would cost explains the price creep.

Rhony Dahl compared what it would take to build a 79 series to the same level aftermarket and came in at a whopping 170k!

 

[OkGo]

I just want to point out that the Land cruiser 250 with an ICE engine sells new for £26,500 in Japan.

 

[OkGo]

You COULD make a truck for 50K, but it would have to be very light duty components. Think IFS front end, chain driven t case, paper thin tie rods, smaller frame, less towing capacity, rack and pinon, plastic bumpers, and so on. The primary cost of this rig is the heavy duty components. Thats why SAS is so expensive. I suppose additionally the volume would need to be higher. Between inflation during Covid and not anticipating how much the heavy duty components would cost explains the price creep.

There is something about the heavy duty components for sure. Ruined by the exceptionally poor quality of bits holding these heavy duty things together.

 

[Jeremy996]

There is something about the heavy duty components for sure. Ruined by the exceptionally poor quality of bits holding these heavy duty things together.

OK, which poor quality bits holding the heavy duty things together?

I don't think even Ineos Automotive would defend the quality of the original software release, but it had little to do with the functioning of the drivetrain and was mostly just irritating, with lots of spurious warnings with associated noises. Can we have a little less hyperbole and a little more analysis?

 

[Mountain4x4]

Must be the frame off a Rock Truck that is poor quality.... Are there silly little things that could be built better or need an engineering revision? Oh for sure. But other then the front drive shaft angles its hard to find something super mission critical. Meanwhile recovery companies are raking in money with modern IFS rigs, broken Jeep and Bronco front ends and the like.

 

[OkGo]

OK, which poor quality bits holding the heavy duty things together?

I don't think even Ineos Automotive would defend the quality of the original software release, but it had little to do with the functioning of the drivetrain and was mostly just irritating, with lots of spurious warnings with associated noises. Can we have a little less hyperbole and a little more analysis?

Perishing rubber from seals holding stuff together. Door sensors, sticking latches.. Drive shaft seals cracking.. low range gear lever falling out.. Poor quality wipers.. snorkels that are not quite sealed up, diff breathers... Rain water ingress..Etc etc lots of small bits that hold the well publicised heavy duty stuff together. Just an example, the real lists are pretty long and you know it.

And even some of the heavy duty stuff isn't, eg the rock sliders and the rusting issue.

On a car that's barely a year old, driven easy and maintained to well within spec.

Somewhat surprised that you are dismissing this as hyperbolic fluff.

 

[Mountain4x4]

I think one difference is I drive the snot out of it, 25K a year and bang it up hard over challenging trails...so the little stuff does not bother me. So what, rust on a slider? I am going to rub the paint off on boulders anyways. Most of that list I have not had trouble with, but a non sealed snorkel is a little silly, and for such a purpose built rig raised breathers would cost nothing to do and should have been done.

 

[[ Adam ]]

snorkels that are not quite sealed up,

What are you on about, its not a snorkel.

 

[Mountain4x4]

I do realize the snorkel identifies as a Raised Air Intake, but despite the pronoun choice and avoidance of lawsuits you could seal it up and still use the raised air intake pronoun.

 

[ADVAW8S]

This is a very interesting discussion and pertinent for me as I've decided to part ways with my grenadier and I've traded it in for a new defender. Part of the reason for this is health related, a consequence of which is that I'm having to use the grenadier a lot for long distance autoroute travel rather than exploring off piste. The grenadier can do this but it's not at its best in that situation. The other reason is that there are a number of niggles which have become very irksome in my new health mandated 'use case' (e.g. transfer box whine, ADAS bongs which require too many button presses to switch off, slow and randomly glitchy infotainment system, HVAC wackiness, juddering wipers, poor lumbar support, jamming menu buttons exacerbating ADAS frustrations, jamming door buttons, sagging control cables hitting propshaft, poor turning circle, door seals collecting water, the need to seriously slam doors to prevent warning lights, etc). Had I been using the vehicle for 'expeditions' these niggles would not have intruded to the same extent but as things stand I've decided it's time to move on. The defender is equally as computerised as the grenadier but its development is more mature and its systems seem less buggy. It's also much more refined on road which is unfortunately where I'm spending most of my time, so it fits my use case better. Reflecting on the conversation in this thread I think it's not so much an issue with the grenadier it's more that my use case has changed and the grenadier is now sub-optimal for me. Had I been doing much more off road exploring, even if only on gravel, the grenadier would have excelled and it would be a different story. Incidentally one of my reasons for choosing the defender is that there are many aftermarket providers who can go into the vehicle systems and change settings to enable you to permanently switch off the ADAS nanny noises, something not possible at present on the grenadier unless you live in the US. For me the best part of the grenadier is its suspension and the worst part is its software, particularly the human/machine interface. I think there is no escape from computers in modern vehicles and for me that's ok, so long as a) they are 100% reliable and b) the software is properly developed, tested and fit for purpose. The latter is not the case in the grenadier (actually I suspect 90% of the software is fine, it's the 10% that isn't which is irritating). There endeth my twopennethworth

If you have questions around navigating the software on the ND, reach out. One of main reasons I got rid of my ND is because of the software issues.

 

[OkGo]

What are you on about, its not a snorkel.

Exactly.

 

[Zimm]

Exactly.

Are you suggesting a snorkel that isnt, isnt.

In all seriousness, BS about renaming a snorkle on an offroad truck as a raised air intake because its not watertight, is silly, because if its not airtight, and doesnt have a prefilter on the top, its not effectively performing the function of a tractor raised air intake either. To do either job properly, it needs to be sealed. I purchased mine, figuring it could be with a little modification if I so wanted, which, I'm not sure thats actually the case.

 

[TCMColorado]

We can argue about semantics regarding raised air intakes verses snorkels, but there is a difference. No, a RIA is not fully sealed but the majority of the air flow is coming from the raised location even if there is some bleed by at the joints. The result is that the air reaching the filter is still cleaner than it would be otherwise so it is serving the intended purpose. A snorkel is designed to be fully sealed which will result in marginally cleaner air to the filter but its real purpose is to allow for deep water fording. Ineos designed the intake as an RAI, never claimed system was sealed and never called it a snorkel so it is reasonable as owners to make a distinction between the two.