How to view the Grenadier in todays market?

[Tenac]

Well fair enough. Mine works perfectly.
Just glad I don't have a ND with triple the number of sensors, huge price and dastardly service costs...in my state!

In my state the cost of the grenny to get oil changed and diff fluids cost twice as much as my Porsche..... Not sure if sensors are the only factor to what makes maintenance $$$. I think that is a whole other topic for sure.

 

[Tazzieman]

In my state the cost of the grenny to get oil changed and diff fluids cost twice as much as my Porsche..... Not sure if sensors are the only factor to what makes maintenance $$$. I think that is a whole other topic for sure.

To be fair, fluids are quite DIY. And you need more fluid!

 

[Tenac]

To be fair, fluids are quite DIY. And you need more fluid!

lol fair but the Porsche is 8.5qts of oil and don't even ask about getting to the air filter the rear convertible top has to come off. hahaha

 

[Tazzieman]

lol fair but the Porsche is 8.5qts of oil and don't even ask about getting to the air filter the rear convertible top has to come off. hahaha

Modern Porsches are not very DIY.
How much diff oil does it take?

 

[Tenac]

Modern Porsches are not very DIY.
How much diff oil does it take?

No clue its just the rear on this one, my Turbo S was AWD... Even a few more qts of oil or fluid should be 400$ more when the hours are 2.5 lower to do the grenny... But I digress that topic would be a larger spin off.

 

[cyson]

This is a very interesting discussion and pertinent for me as I've decided to part ways with my grenadier and I've traded it in for a new defender. Part of the reason for this is health related, a consequence of which is that I'm having to use the grenadier a lot for long distance autoroute travel rather than exploring off piste. The grenadier can do this but it's not at its best in that situation. The other reason is that there are a number of niggles which have become very irksome in my new health mandated 'use case' (e.g. transfer box whine, ADAS bongs which require too many button presses to switch off, slow and randomly glitchy infotainment system, HVAC wackiness, juddering wipers, poor lumbar support, jamming menu buttons exacerbating ADAS frustrations, jamming door buttons, sagging control cables hitting propshaft, poor turning circle, door seals collecting water, the need to seriously slam doors to prevent warning lights, etc). Had I been using the vehicle for 'expeditions' these niggles would not have intruded to the same extent but as things stand I've decided it's time to move on. The defender is equally as computerised as the grenadier but its development is more mature and its systems seem less buggy. It's also much more refined on road which is unfortunately where I'm spending most of my time, so it fits my use case better. Reflecting on the conversation in this thread I think it's not so much an issue with the grenadier it's more that my use case has changed and the grenadier is now sub-optimal for me. Had I been doing much more off road exploring, even if only on gravel, the grenadier would have excelled and it would be a different story. Incidentally one of my reasons for choosing the defender is that there are many aftermarket providers who can go into the vehicle systems and change settings to enable you to permanently switch off the ADAS nanny noises, something not possible at present on the grenadier unless you live in the US. For me the best part of the grenadier is its suspension and the worst part is its software, particularly the human/machine interface. I think there is no escape from computers in modern vehicles and for me that's ok, so long as a) they are 100% reliable and b) the software is properly developed, tested and fit for purpose. The latter is not the case in the grenadier (actually I suspect 90% of the software is fine, it's the 10% that isn't which is irritating). There endeth my twopennethworth

Whenever I hear that someone is moving to a Land Rover because of the glitches in ANY vehicle, I can't help but chuckle just a little bit!

All kidding aside, I sympathize with your need to move to a more comfortable and refined vehicle. I would have a new Defender as well but the LR dealer just made it so hard for me to actually get one back in 2020 so I ended up with a GX. Best of wishes with your new ride!

 

[Mad Hatter]

Time will tell whether it's the right decision or not. I'm not a grenadier knocker, I just wish I was doing the type of trips the grenadier excels at. On a positive note I was overtaken by a dark grenadier on the A85 yesterday. It had a roof tent on top and I got a beep and a lovely wave from the passenger as they flew past me. I only mention it because is the one and only other grenadier I've seen on the road in France in the last 12 months I've owned mine. It made me smile

 

[Mountain4x4]

The more we drive ours, the more we love it. Is it flawed, room for improvement? Of course, what is not flawed. I hope they sit down with owners for before the next refresh and do some amazing things. Frankly, would not cost a lot. But the bottom line is, you should be buying Ineos products for;

1. Extremely well built, essentially one ton gear.
2. Reliability( 2nd best I have ever owned)
3. The Most effective off road vehicle on the market today with god like off road characteristics
4. The Best Overlanding vehicle on the market
5. One the easiest, modern off road vehicles to work on.

Sure we have knocked out over 20,000 miles in our first year sadly, but you should not own one;

1. To look cool, even though you will!
2. If you don't plan to use it off road
3. You don't need a solid front axle vehicle
4. You want more modern, luxury features like massaging seats.

Ineos vehicles are for the 1%, and while 1% of billions of people is a fair number it was very brave to make a vehicle geared towards such a small market. We own 3 vehicles, all solid axles, winch, front lockers and plan to keep it that way with a new Power Wagon coming to replace my high mileage one in the next couple of months, and then replacing my ancient SAS 1996 Montero Overlander with a Quartermaster build in a few years. We don't even live on a paved road, and most hobbies are outdoors based, so we are special case for sure. Back from 10 days in the wilderness for a week, and back out again for Moab in a Week. A NEW Defender on the other hand is a luxury street car designed for around town and luxurious road trips. None of the 5 points at the top apply to a Defender for instance, or most any new 4x4.

 

[OkGo]

I think large part of the problem is that many people here disagree that the top 5 items apply to the Grenadier either.

 

[abbeyroad]

1. Extremely well built, essentially one ton gear. [Agreed, the mechanical bones are tried and true, but I'd love to see an objective hardware comparison to others in its class to truly see what's underneath]
2. Reliability( 2nd best I have ever owned) [Time will tell]
3. The Most effective off road vehicle on the market today with god like off road characteristics [Bronco Raptor will run circles around it]
4. The Best Overlanding vehicle on the market [Ok?]
5. One the easiest, modern off road vehicles to work on. [Sourcing parts is third world compared to Toyota; time will tell]

Sure we have knocked out over 20,000 miles in our first year sadly, but you should not own one;

1. To look cool, even though you will! [Guilty as charged]
2. If you don't plan to use it off road [I use it 99% for LA urban jungle duty just fine]
3. You don't need a solid front axle vehicle [99.9% of IG owners can get away with a G Wagon, Toyota GX550, current gen Defender just fine]
4. You want more modern, luxury features like massaging seats.[The less Kardashian the better for me, but I'd love to have adaptive cruise]

 

[Dokatd]

I think large part of the problem is that many people here disagree that the top 5 items apply to the Grenadier either.

Very much so

 

[mcdoogs]

Well fair enough. Mine works perfectly.
Just glad I don't have a ND with triple the number of sensors, huge price and dastardly service costs...in my state!

I came from a ND and it was less expensive than my Grenadier (even adjusting for inflation) and software was both more stable and far more feature rich. I like the Grenadier, but i feel like the posts where ppl feel obligated to shit on the ND are generally unnecessary and usually dont come from people who have owned both and done thousands of miles offroad in the ND.

Also speaking of service: the only new england ineos dealer says it’ll take 5 hours to do a software update. So for me, 3 hour round trip drive (with zero traffic, yeah right) and 5 hours waiting in a bland suburb. OTA updates would be amazing.

 

[Mountain4x4]

1. Extremely well built, essentially one ton gear. [Agreed, the mechanical bones are tried and true, but I'd love to see an objective hardware comparison to others in its class to truly see what's underneath]
2. Reliability( 2nd best I have ever owned) [Time will tell]
3. The Most effective off road vehicle on the market today with god like off road characteristics [Bronco Raptor will run circles around it]
4. The Best Overlanding vehicle on the market [Ok?]
5. One the easiest, modern off road vehicles to work on. [Sourcing parts is third world compared to Toyota; time will tell]

Sorry, had trouble quoting that. Objective comparison in detail would be interesting. But what do you compare it to? My Ram Power Wagon is really the closest in strength, but 2 totally different types of vehicles. A Rubicon wont be very close, but closer then anything else on the market. The Bronco is EXTREMELY delicate, while being very capable. With 35" tires on the Grenadier the Bronco will be out matched due to solid axle. My first day owning the Grenadier I did a difficult trail and 3 out of 4 Broncos turned around to preserve there drive train, the 4th one made it to the end but skipped the river Fording. The Bronco did quite well, but the Grenadier did the trail easier with 33s. The Bronco had 35s.

Of course I have not needed many parts yet. But brakes, gutter trim we smashed, and some other small things have been super easy. Adding a high angle CV was just placing an order for a common part, and my mind almost melted yesterday looking at the aftermarket upgrades on Agiles website. ( I was there for a new ARB twin for my Montero)

 

[Zimm]

You all think too much, or maybe not enough. It's not "simple" like an old car, because that would mean an "old car" style wiring harness, and not control area network. It would be more expensive as nothing would be off the shelf and Magna doesn't even engineer that anymore. And once you go CAN, you're pretty much like every other car, and for a feature its merely adding a 2wire and sensor. What we have is a modern car, like any other car, that has the veneer of simple. The same electronics that will strand any other modern car, are running this. Once you accept that, the idea of NOT getting things like adaptive cruise for 95K, is kinda stupid.

 

[Zimm]

One ton gear? I duknow, my f350 payload/towing is over 7000/26000 and I've gone above. I dont think I'd use any of these driveline parts for that.

 

[CRH]

You all think too much, or maybe not enough. It's not "simple" like an old car, because that would mean an "old car" style wiring harness, and not control area network. It would be more expensive as nothing would be off the shelf and Magna doesn't even engineer that anymore. And once you go CAN, you're pretty much like every other car, and for a feature its merely adding a 2wire and sensor. What we have is a modern car, like any other car, that has the veneer of simple. The same electronics that will strand any other modern car, are running this. Once you accept that, the idea of NOT getting things like adaptive cruise for 95K, is kinda stupid.

Agreed except for the cost against not getting luxury. Low volume, supposed high end/over engineered mechanicals is what I thought.

 

[Mountain4x4]

I actually just ordered a new PW with out adaptive cruise and lane keeping crap. Expensive, and not all that great. Self driving some day...Blue Cruise or such, sure. But just more bongs? Nope. Yes, a 1 ton pick up will haul greatly more with a longer wheel base, wider stance, weight, different suspension and so on. You can add 1 ton gear to a Samurai if you like.....but...I tow 15K with my Power Wagon, and 7K with the Grenadier. While both have similar strength in components, one is designed to tow more.

 

[Zimm]

I actually just ordered a new PW with out adaptive cruise and lane keeping crap. Expensive, and not all that great. Self driving some day...Blue Cruise or such, sure. But just more bongs? Nope. Yes, a 1 ton pick up will haul greatly more with a longer wheel base, wider stance, weight, different suspension and so on. You can add 1 ton gear to a Samurai if you like.....but...I tow 15K with my Power Wagon, and 7K with the Grenadier. While both have similar strength in components, one is designed to tow more.

Your transmission would fail, your tcase would fail, your cv's would fail, your diffs would fail, and your brakes would cook. The cooling system on a long tow would piss itself. There is nothing under this truck that could handle what my 1 ton can handle. nothing. not a single solitary part of the drive train. It's why I have.... a 1 ton. Sorry.

Over sizing components, for the sake of over sizing components, when they will never see the forces those components can handle, increases neither durability or reliability. They did not use 1 ton components.

 

[abbeyroad]

1. Extremely well built, essentially one ton gear. [Agreed, the mechanical bones are tried and true, but I'd love to see an objective hardware comparison to others in its class to truly see what's underneath]
2. Reliability( 2nd best I have ever owned) [Time will tell]
3. The Most effective off road vehicle on the market today with god like off road characteristics [Bronco Raptor will run circles around it]
4. The Best Overlanding vehicle on the market [Ok?]
5. One the easiest, modern off road vehicles to work on. [Sourcing parts is third world compared to Toyota; time will tell]

Sorry, had trouble quoting that. Objective comparison in detail would be interesting. But what do you compare it to? My Ram Power Wagon is really the closest in strength, but 2 totally different types of vehicles. A Rubicon wont be very close, but closer then anything else on the market. The Bronco is EXTREMELY delicate, while being very capable. With 35" tires on the Grenadier the Bronco will be out matched due to solid axle. My first day owning the Grenadier I did a difficult trail and 3 out of 4 Broncos turned around to preserve there drive train, the 4th one made it to the end but skipped the river Fording. The Bronco did quite well, but the Grenadier did the trail easier with 33s. The Bronco had 35s.

Of course I have not needed many parts yet. But brakes, gutter trim we smashed, and some other small things have been super easy. Adding a high angle CV was just placing an order for a common part, and my mind almost melted yesterday looking at the aftermarket upgrades on Agiles website. ( I was there for a new ARB twin for my Montero)

Let's please leave the IG tribalism at home. The Bronco Raptor is far from delicate. Every component is beefed up from ladder frame to suspension pick up points to steering rack and on and on and on. It's a monster that's insanely capable on and off road.

I'd love a comparison to others in its class.

 

[cyson]

You all think too much, or maybe not enough. It's not "simple" like an old car, because that would mean an "old car" style wiring harness, and not control area network. It would be more expensive as nothing would be off the shelf and Magna doesn't even engineer that anymore. And once you go CAN, you're pretty much like every other car, and for a feature its merely adding a 2wire and sensor. What we have is a modern car, like any other car, that has the veneer of simple. The same electronics that will strand any other modern car, are running this. Once you accept that, the idea of NOT getting things like adaptive cruise for 95K, is kinda stupid.

I think the original objective was probably to discuss the cost/feature creep. What was the original price target for the Grenadier anyways? I thought originally they were talking something in the 50s...