General Has anyone swapped out a turbo?

[FlyingTexan]

So I had an accident in my IG where it ingested water. It’s been through a lot of work but have it back. The turbo sounds like it’s making noise when you floor it. Not sure it’s long for this world. Wondering what my options are. They don’t look to be that expensive but I’m not 100% sure on if Grok is giving me accurate part numbers. I’m also curious if there’s other aftermarket/upgrade options available. It’s one thing I don’t really understand. Can you just slap a new turbo on or would it the need computer programming?

Anyone have the stock turbo name/part number?

 

[Tylerb42]

Don’t have anything to add, but following because this will be interesting!

 

[KristinaM]

Sounds like fun…

So I had an accident in my IG where it ingested water. It’s been through a lot of work but have it back. The turbo sounds like it’s making noise when you floor it. Not sure it’s long for this world. Wondering what my options are. They don’t look to be that expensive but I’m not 100% sure on if Grok is giving me accurate part numbers. I’m also curious if there’s other aftermarket/upgrade options available. It’s one thing I don’t really understand. Can you just slap a new turbo on or would it the need computer programming?

Anyone have the stock turbo name/part number?

Sounds like fun ( not ). Speaking of part numbers:

 

[FlyingTexan]

Sounds like fun…

Sounds like fun ( not ). Speaking of part numbers:

View attachment 7916661

Didn’t buy her to be a pavement princess. Have a great shop but wondering if I have to stick with stock or if I can get a different after market turbo.

Just looked up the part number on google and came up empty. Can you actually buy from Ineos now?

 

[KristinaM]

Personally I’d stick with OEM kit for that - staying conservative for durability. OTOH there seem to be quite a few aftermarket ( performance oriented ) turbo options available for the petrol B58 so that definitely seems possible…

As far as I’m aware you need to purchase parts through an Ineos dealer - I’d love to be corrected on this point if we have another option.

 

[landmannnn]

As above there are plenty of options to upgrade the B58 turbos.
There's a bit more than just nuts and bolts, the injectors will need to be replaced and the ECU mapped at the very least.

 

[C-Mack]

I would also think any aftermarket turbo upgrade for the B58 petrol would be optimized for higher flow rates and horsepower gains in the upper RPM range which would be more appropriate for BMW high performance models featuring the B58 engine. The B58 as tuned for the Grenadier has specifically been de-rated, optimize for torque and reliability. I’m sure it’s entirely possible to bolt on a turbo performance kit for other versions of the B58 but as others have mentioned now you’d be in the realm of retuning/mapping the engine to make it all work but in the process possibly making the engine less of a performance match for the Grenadier.

 

[ADVAW8S]

My 2 cents, BMW turbos have a 80k shelf life. This one area that you can improve the length of service in engine swapping to metal turo, pipes and metal manifold since they are all plastic. I personally plan on taking mu truck to get it done as I get closer to 75k. It will be done at a BMW shop and I hopefully they will be able to remap to a the original low end settings.

 

[landmannnn]

My 2 cents, BMW turbos have a 80k shelf life. This one area that you can improve the length of service in engine swapping to metal turo, pipes and metal manifold since they are all plastic. I personally plan on taking mu truck to get it done as I get closer to 75k. It will be done at a BMW shop and I hopefully they will be able to remap to a the original low end settings.

80k miles, are you sure?

 

[AWo]

A turbo is not a wear part. If all conditions are right it can last an engine life long.

My cheap Garrett Td5 turbo is now 465.000 km old...a Turbo runs wear free, because like the other rotating parts it is self centered in oil and the shaft as well as the wheels have no contact to surfaces. If there is a problem with wear it is almost always a problem in the surrounding or the design of surrounding parts, like leaking pipes or tubes, parts which doesn't belong in the airstream, problems of all kinds with oil, etc.

Examples: Audi had turbo problem in one of its 2.5 liter diesels. The cause was a (new) 90 degree bend in the oil pipe from the turbo to the oil pan and the crank housing pressure. Earlier modells didn't had this bend, so with the existing pressure the oil still could fall into the oil pan. With the 90 degree bend the pressure kept the oil in the pipe leading to an overheating of the shaft. Audi changed the PCV valve to reduce the pressure and the problem was gone.

Opel used an exhaust manifold made from two thin layers of metall with an air gap in between. These are lighter and reach the working temperature very soon. But they have condensed water which led to rust at the welding points. Small rust parts coming apart damaged the turbo wheel. When you bought a new turbo you also received a new manifold.

Environmental things like ice from condensed water in the air intake tubes can also damage a turbo. But the turbo itself rarely fail because itself is the problem.

AWo

 

[NQ94]

A turbo is not a wear part. If all conditions are right it can last an engine life long.

My cheap Garrett Td5 turbo is now 465.000 km old...a Turbo runs wear free, because like the other rotating parts it is self centered in oil and the shaft as well as the wheels have no contact to surfaces. If there is a problem with wear it is almost always a problem in the surrounding or the design of surrounding parts, like leaking pipes or tubes, parts which doesn't belong in the airstream, problems of all kinds with oil, etc.

Examples: Audi had turbo problem in one of its 2.5 liter diesels. The cause was a (new) 90 degree bend in the oil pipe from the turbo to the oil pan and the crank housing pressure. Earlier modells didn't had this bend, so with the existing pressure the oil still could fall into the oil pan. With the 90 degree bend the pressure kept the oil in the pipe leading to an overheating of the shaft. Audi changed the PCV valve to reduce the pressure and the problem was gone.

Opel used an exhaust manifold made from two thin layers of metall with an air gap in between. These are lighter and reach the working temperature very soon. But they have condensed water which led to rust at the welding points. Small rust parts coming apart damaged the turbo wheel. When you bought a new turbo you also received a new manifold.

Environmental things like ice from condensed water in the air intake tubes can also damage a turbo. But the turbo itself rarely fail because itself is the problem.

AWo

Still pays to check play radially and axially every now and then to ensure the compressor and turbine are not contacting any surface and there isn't any excessive wear from carbon in the oil, coking or shaft oil seal leakage.

 

[landmannnn]

A turbo is not a wear part. If all conditions are right it can last an engine life long.

My cheap Garrett Td5 turbo is now 465.000 km old...a Turbo runs wear free, because like the other rotating parts it is self centered in oil and the shaft as well as the wheels have no contact to surfaces. If there is a problem with wear it is almost always a problem in the surrounding or the design of surrounding parts, like leaking pipes or tubes, parts which doesn't belong in the airstream, problems of all kinds with oil, etc.

Examples: Audi had turbo problem in one of its 2.5 liter diesels. The cause was a (new) 90 degree bend in the oil pipe from the turbo to the oil pan and the crank housing pressure. Earlier modells didn't had this bend, so with the existing pressure the oil still could fall into the oil pan. With the 90 degree bend the pressure kept the oil in the pipe leading to an overheating of the shaft. Audi changed the PCV valve to reduce the pressure and the problem was gone.

Opel used an exhaust manifold made from two thin layers of metall with an air gap in between. These are lighter and reach the working temperature very soon. But they have condensed water which led to rust at the welding points. Small rust parts coming apart damaged the turbo wheel. When you bought a new turbo you also received a new manifold.

Environmental things like ice from condensed water in the air intake tubes can also damage a turbo. But the turbo itself rarely fail because itself is the problem.

AWo

Totally agree.

However (having run a few forums) it is not unusual for the average mechanic to think that a turbo is the devil's work and to replace it if the engine is not running correctly.

 

[AWo]

Checking the play....the buzz word....don't get me wrong...but everyone wants to check the play of the turbo shaft....

To check the play you need a lot of experience. Really a lot and it is so missleading....people grap the small shaft and yeahhh!!! There is play!!

First: Of course there is play and everytime you try it there is even more! Why? Because the shaft is in a floating bushing bearing and there are two layers of oil. The first layer is between the shaft and the floating bearing and the second is between the bearing and the housing. Everytime you're moving the shaft with your fingers you pump out the oil, increasing the (normal) play you can feel. If at all, you need to have and keep oil in the bearing to measure the play.

Second: You must be an expert with a lot of feeling in your finger tips to distinguish between axial and radial play. Who can really decide which play is felt when he isn't doing that every day (and after feeling it, dismantle the turbo and see if one was really right!). The fingertips are soft and that makes it hard to feel which kind of play is present.

I work a lot on cars and engines and I visited Motair in Cologne, Germany, the largest turbo repair company in Europe (you can read about my visit here: https://matsch-und-piste.de/der-turbolader-die-diva-des-motors-turboladerschaeden-vermeiden/ ). They made a blindtest with me. They asked me to try to find play at different turbos but they didn't say if it had too much play (damaged) or not. I failed every time.
What they did and they explained it was, that they pushed some oil in the oil feed everytime they try to detect play. So if you really want to find play you have to take the turbo out, push oil in the oil feed and work very precisely with a lot of experience. Just grabing the shaft and try to move it, will not do it. Except it has already a large amount of play, but be sure, if that is the case you noticed the damage already by other indicators....

I assume countless turbos got replaced because "experts" felt play....

AWo

 

[shiv.nandak]

This would have been all the excuse I need to get an upgraded turbo kit, transmission upgrade kit and tune to at least 600hp. But I thought turbos instantly fail if they inject any water?

 

[AWo]

Smallest waterdrops can be like rocks for the thin and filigree blades. The turbo must not fail imeediately, but might be damaged. A blade can be bend. If it doesn't get in contact with the housing you might not even notice it. However, if the turbo starts to whistle or make a sound which wasn't there before, this can be an indicator to a bend blade.
If if had contact with the housing it will grind a little bit, which can also end up in unusual noises. In this case you have a more serious damage, as material was lost and it is deposited somewhere. In addition the blade wheel is not balanced anymore which can create later problems with the shaft.

It may, but it must not fail immediately if water is entering the turbo. It depends on the amount of water and the speed of the turbo.

AWo

 

[landmannnn]

Checking the play....the buzz word....don't get me wrong...but everyone wants to check the play of the turbo shaft....

To check the play you need a lot of experience. Really a lot and it is so missleading....people grap the small shaft and yeahhh!!! There is play!!

First: Of course there is play and everytime you try it there is even more! Why? Because the shaft is in a floating bushing bearing and there are two layers of oil. The first layer is between the shaft and the floating bearing and the second is between the bearing and the housing. Everytime you're moving the shaft with your fingers you pump out the oil, increasing the (normal) play you can feel. If at all, you need to have and keep oil in the bearing to measure the play.

Second: You must be an expert with a lot of feeling in your finger tips to distinguish between axial and radial play. Who can really decide which play is felt when he isn't doing that every day (and after feeling it, dismantle teh turbo and see if one was really right!). The fingertips are soft and that makes it hard to feel which kind of play is present.

I work a lot on cars and engines and I visited Motair in Cologne, Germany, the largest turbo repair company in Europe (you can read about my visit here: https://matsch-und-piste.de/der-turbolader-die-diva-des-motors-turboladerschaeden-vermeiden/ ). They made a blindtest with me. They asked me to try to find play at different turbos but they didn't say if it had too much play (damaged) or not. I failed every time. What they did and they explained it was, that they pushed some oil in the oil feed everytime they try to detect play. So if you really want to find play you have to take te turbo out, push oil in the oil feed and work very precisely with a lot of experience. Just grabing the shaft and try to move it, will not do it. Except it has already a large amount of play, but be sure, if that is the case you noticed the damage already by other indicators....

I assume countless turbos got replaced because "experts" felt play....

AWo

And of course the mystery of the magic variable geometry confuses the experts equally.

 

[AWo]

The VTG is in deed something you can easily check and you should do it. Just run the engine, accelerate and deccelerate and check if the rod and the VTG is moving freely.

If that got stuck while open, ok, less power. But if it got stuck closed, you'll end up with an turbo overspeeding damage. The compressor blade wheel will expand and grind at the housing and at some point it might break apart.

Easy to detect afterwards. Check the back of the blade wheel. If it shows a lot of small dents it suffered from overspeeding.

AWo

 

[Tenac]

I've swapped out a bunch mostly the S platform engines but without access to correctly tune the engine I'd sadly say stay with stock. If you have a lift the job isn't tough at all, mostly dealing with exhaust bolts is the only real pain. My last swap was on a X3M took me alone 5 hours.

 

[ADVAW8S]

80k miles, are you sure?

I went back and looked what engine I had on my BMW 335i. When it blew on highway, the Eurosport repair shop was like yea, your at point where turbo goes. It was a N54 and not a B58 so it probably not the same issue.

 

[NQ94]

Checking the play....the buzz word....don't get me wrong...but everyone wants to check the play of the turbo shaft....

To check the play you need a lot of experience. Really a lot and it is so missleading....people grap the small shaft and yeahhh!!! There is play!!

First: Of course there is play and everytime you try it there is even more! Why? Because the shaft is in a floating bushing bearing and there are two layers of oil. The first layer is between the shaft and the floating bearing and the second is between the bearing and the housing. Everytime you're moving the shaft with your fingers you pump out the oil, increasing the (normal) play you can feel. If at all, you need to have and keep oil in the bearing to measure the play.

Second: You must be an expert with a lot of feeling in your finger tips to distinguish between axial and radial play. Who can really decide which play is felt when he isn't doing that every day (and after feeling it, dismantle the turbo and see if one was really right!). The fingertips are soft and that makes it hard to feel which kind of play is present.

I work a lot on cars and engines and I visited Motair in Cologne, Germany, the largest turbo repair company in Europe (you can read about my visit here: https://matsch-und-piste.de/der-turbolader-die-diva-des-motors-turboladerschaeden-vermeiden/ ). They made a blindtest with me. They asked me to try to find play at different turbos but they didn't say if it had too much play (damaged) or not. I failed every time.
What they did and they explained it was, that they pushed some oil in the oil feed everytime they try to detect play. So if you really want to find play you have to take the turbo out, push oil in the oil feed and work very precisely with a lot of experience. Just grabing the shaft and try to move it, will not do it. Except it has already a large amount of play, but be sure, if that is the case you noticed the damage already by other indicators....

I assume countless turbos got replaced because "experts" felt play....

AWo

Only half of the article would translate to English if it's printed, its a good read.
For larger engines we check the movement with dial gauges. Agree the test by hand is not an accurate method but is used mainly for a quick field trouble shooting check. The main reason is to ensure either the compressor or turbine doesn't contact or is resting on the housing particularly on start up prior to full oil supply as most turbos have restriction to reduce the amount of oil and pressure that feeds into the bearings. We do see turbos compressors fail due to fatigue with no contamination. The most common failure we see is damage from the accumulation of multiple hot shut downs with insufficient cool down a spool down times allowing the bearings and seals to run with insufficent lubrication overheat and wear resulting in oil leaks or failed shafts and metal through the intake and exhaust. Blocked air filters is another issue for us especially in extreme bull dust. This also causes excessive heat and turbine shaft failure over time. Cleaning air filters too much can cause excessive dust ingestion particularly if there is not a secondary back up air filter. The other failure is leaks in the aftercooler and associated pipe work that causes over speeds and generally the compressor to split.
The point the turbo should last the life of the engine may apply to small engines but in a lot of earthmoving, truck and industrial engines it is common to change turbos at half engine life particularly in variable engine speed high duty cycle applications. It's common for these engines to do 15000 to 25000+ hours before overhaul where as most car engines would be very lucky to make 4-5000 hrs run time before the car is scrapped.