Grenadier vs 2024 Land Cruiser

[YellowLab]

Look at all the GX and LC excitement on this forum. But I agree, it is no 80/100 Series. Toyota took the opportunity to lower costs by dropping the LC-25-year life expectancy.

I have no skin in the debate - but I highly doubt that Toyota given their almost mythical focus on quality (Lexus and Toyota rank #1 and #2 by as the best auto marques) to suddenly say ‘screw it, let’s not make the next LC last as long as the previous generation.’

 

[2wheelfish]

It's interesting that Boston has for so many years recycled/processed drinking water from waste water and that concept is like Mars out here....I originally from the Boston area - GO SOX!!!

Not to derail thread, but that’s not totally true. In OC about 130 million gallons/day of wastewater is recycled back to drinking water for the last 10 years. Most large municipalities on Cali are working to build similar systems around the state. Also a lot of the rainwater captured behind Prado dam is recycled back into the aquifer to be used as drinking water in OC and has been managed like this since the 1940’s. Not as good as it could be for sure, but it’s something.

 

[Logsplitter]

Here’s what Ineos have to compete with for the utility vehicle market in Namibia. Built tough.

 

[YellowLab]

Not to derail thread, but that’s not totally true. In OC about 130 million gallons/day of wastewater is recycled back to drinking water for the last 10 years. Most large municipalities on Cali are working to build similar systems around the state. Also a lot of the rainwater captured behind Prado dam is recycled back into the aquifer to be used as drinking water in OC and has been managed like this since the 1940’s. Not as good as it could be for sure, but it’s something.

I was thinking more about LA - where the news is showing pictures of people drinking out of a toilet just to get everyone upset/for effect. Sorry for the generalizaton. Almost can't blame them folks against its- LA is such a disaster from a management standpoint of a big city - not sure I'd trust much the city does. OC certainly has been ahead of so many other places in CA.

 

[lightning]

Here’s what Ineos have to compete with for the utility vehicle market in Namibia. Built tough. View attachment 7843431

The top requirement in places like Namibia would be ease of repair and parts availability.
Also cost, l doubt lneos will sell many there at a start price of U.K.£65,000
However you'll probably see plenty of Overlanders in Grenadiers.

 

[Logsplitter]

The top requirement in places like Namibia would be ease of repair and parts availability.
Also cost, l doubt lneos will sell many there at a start price of U.K.£65,000
However you'll probably see plenty of Overlanders in Grenadiers.

I’m told they are selling well in Namibia. One safari company has bought some and ordered more

 

[Boston Boy]

I’d like to some Grenadier’s used by utility companies. 12 yrs of my life building power lines using Landrovers and many other makes. We all had 4x4 training as part of the job but those vehicles got abused and worked very hard. Only time will tell if the Grenadier is going to be durable long term.
Once some of these safari companies get them and use them as they go the Defenders and landcruisers, along with utility companies for example building power lines, then that will be the proof of the pudding.
So far I’ve been loaded for the 18k km + of my journey so far and engine, transmission and suspension are rock solid

Given that Ratcliffe's business is (and his wealth comes from) the industrial Chemicals world, I've always assumed that he saw the major volume market for the Grenadier as being in the pipeline, power, and other industrial segments... and that the early adopters (the folks on this forumn) as self-financing cash test dummies whose purpose was to put on the miles, see what breaks and then fix in manufacturing run V2.0

 

[Chadd7]

Reasonable assumption

 

[lightning]

I’m told they are selling well in Namibia. One safari company has bought some and ordered more

Well that's good news, l didn't expect that but the Grenadier will surely make a superb safari vehicle.

 

[NQ94]

Given that Ratcliffe's business is (and his wealth comes from) the industrial Chemicals world, I've always assumed that he saw the major volume market for the Grenadier as being in the pipeline, power, and other industrial segments... and that the early adopters (the folks on this forumn) as self-financing cash test dummies whose purpose was to put on the miles, see what breaks and then fix in manufacturing run V2.0

That is an interesting point, driving an essentially commercial vehicle into a market that are enthusiasts who look after their vehicles very well and are the furthest from commercial use to test what breaks or improvements required to be made. Possibly a good strategy as the private buyer does not have the same use profile, apply the same pressures and time constraints as commercial fleets to remedy issues.
IMO, Ineos should of released the Quartermaster crew cab and a single cab at the same time as the Grenadier and pushed it harder towards utility, mining, forestry fleets, commercial and agricultural users. This would reduce product improvement times as there are fleets looking for alternatives, have the resources and are willing to work with OEMs to improve their products, benefiting the OEM, fleet and the private buyer.

 

[SBA]

I was just in Chicago last week and the Auto Show was Gearing up. The IG is and always be a bespoke designed vehicle not for the Masses.
The USA market is tough to crack in any vehicle The IG will do well in Yuppy areas like the Hamptons and parts of CA Second Hand Defenders are stupid money in the USA.

The Landcruiser will sell well but the 4 cyclinder will be a issue for many even though it will be a good engine Americans love the V8s and as they say why would I want a 4 banger. Time will tell.
I think its a hard comparison what IG should think about is a V8 option for the american market such as the N63 BMW supercharged they will keep the american market happy.
As all purchase of vehicles we have choices the IG for many is a choice, we chose the IG if we wanted a New Defender Land Cruiser we would have bought one they are all in the same price point within 15%.

 

[Gren turtle]

For the US market at least, this sounds like bad news/timing for Ineos. 01Aug2023 is the announcement date for the newly redesigned/reintroduced Land Cruiser.

Im assuming it’ll be hard to get one in the beginning but it should be exciting.

Will this affect your Grenadier decision? I guess we’ll know more after the 1st.

Not even close.

 

[Jiman01]

Not even close.

Easier to say now but in Jul2023, when I posted the question, the truck wasn’t even out yet.

Hope you’re enjoying your Grenadier and welcome to the forum

 

[Jiman01]

I was just in Chicago last week and the Auto Show was Gearing up. The IG is and always be a bespoke designed vehicle not for the Masses.
The USA market is tough to crack in any vehicle The IG will do well in Yuppy areas like the Hamptons and parts of CA Second Hand Defenders are stupid money in the USA.

The Landcruiser will sell well but the 4 cyclinder will be a issue for many even though it will be a good engine Americans love the V8s and as they say why would I want a 4 banger. Time will tell.
I think its a hard comparison what IG should think about is a V8 option for the american market such as the N63 BMW supercharged they will keep the american market happy.
As all purchase of vehicles we have choices the IG for many is a choice, we chose the IG if we wanted a New Defender Land Cruiser we would have bought one they are all in the same price point within 15%.

Interesting idea about the V8 but from what I learned about the ND V8, I don’t think IG will produce one. I was seriously considering buying the V8 but when I was optioning it out, I noticed you couldn’t add a roof rack to the V8 ND. When I asked LR why, they explained that the extra weight of the V8 over the I6 (@500lbs, IIRC) affected the GVW enough that the additional weight of the rack plus it’s carry capacity would require to many changes.

With the IG being so heavy as it is, I’d imagine the additional weight of the V8 would have a similar affect.…and of course there’s the issue with the already small gas tank

 

[Zimm]

It's an SUV and no one will care about the V8. This isn't 1985. My father was 78 when he bought a 2.7t f150, and when I was kid he was a 460cid guy. It's power and tq, and mpg, of which the Gren is mysteriously a tad low on all three. Normally theres an exchange.

Ive had the G, the 110NAS, and every US LC model, some twice. As a package, none of them really touched the LC's. Drivers being equal, I don't doubt the new LC/LX will do everything the gren does, but better for 3/5 to 3/4 the price. Company wise, it's its the kingpin. It's Mike tyson vs a newborn. It should.

I just don't want it. It's bland. Unexciting. The round headlights don't make it look retro, they just look out of place compared the lexus sibling. If I wanted technology instead of a front locker I'd take the defender air ride, even though Toyota atrc is awesome and they have proven IFS with a highly articulating solid rear is the grand compromise for comfort and keeping the tires planted. Even the G followed in the LC's footsteps. It had no choice. On paper it's a success, and it will meet those expectations. But for me, It's third place behind the Gren and Defender, and not a close third at that.

 

[MidnightCamper]

Not to derail thread, but that’s not totally true. In OC about 130 million gallons/day of wastewater is recycled back to drinking water for the last 10 years. Most large municipalities on Cali are working to build similar systems around the state. Also a lot of the rainwater captured behind Prado dam is recycled back into the aquifer to be used as drinking water in OC and has been managed like this since the 1940’s. Not as good as it could be for sure, but it’s something.

I believe Las Vegas has been recycling water for a long time too. Haha It got so "cool and wet" out there last week my niece had to put on a windbreaker.

 

[MidnightCamper]

It's interesting that Boston has for so many years recycled/processed drinking water from waste water and that concept is like Mars out here....I originally from the Boston area - GO SOX!!!

Boston potable water comes from a freshwater reservoir. Downstream get treated and dumped in the ocean. Recyling might be golf courses.

 

[Zimm]

With the IG being so heavy as it is, I’d imagine the additional weight of the V8 would have a similar affect.…and of course there’s the issue with the already small gas tank

400hp LA chevy pickups get 15/22. My 2.7t f150 gets 19.2 lifetime combined in hilly stopsign heavy Pitsburgh. The Gren is a heavy brick, but so is a quad cab full size US pickup, and they have a steel parachute in back. The b58 is an undersquare turbo engine also, and that traditionally lends itself to more low end, and an ability to stay out of the turbo with an 8 speed transmission.

The gren is 15/15. 28% less. Beats the heck out'a me as to why.

 

[255/85]

It's an SUV and no one will care about the V8. This isn't 1985. My father was 78 when he bought a 2.7t f150, and when I was kid he was a 460cid guy. It's power and tq, and mpg, of which the Gren is mysteriously a tad low on all three. Normally theres an exchange.

400hp LA chevy pickups get 15/22. My 2.7t f150 gets 19.2 lifetime combined in hilly stopsign heavy Pitsburgh. The Gren is a heavy brick, but so is a quad cab full size US pickup, and they have a steel parachute in back. The b58 is an undersquare turbo engine also, and that traditionally lends itself to more low end, and an ability to stay out of the turbo with an 8 speed transmission.

The gren is 15/15. 28% less. Beats the heck out'a me as to why.

Curb weight on a Grenadier easily meets and may exceed a comparably spec'd Crew Cab F150. 500lbs can make a huge difference in fuel mileage.

Also, modern pickups suffer little aerodynamic loss due to their beds. Nowadays everything is worked out in a wind tunnel to minimize any deleterious effects. Most manufacturers even advise keeping the tailgate closed for best efficiency.

Drivers being equal, I don't doubt the new LC/LX will do everything the gren does, but better for 3/5 to 3/4 the price.

What would it possibly do better? Drive the interstate? Or cross the Simpson over and over and over again? What are the parameters of this comparison wherein the Grenadier comes in second?

The truth is there's no way to be certain of either vehicle at this point. At least we know that Ineos' aim was to deliver a hard working vehicle with a 25 year lifespan. That's certainly not what the LC250/GX550 is aimed at. They're really just a slightly beefed up 4Runner with a hybrid drive train targeted at the easy market Toyota has discovered (or developed) for high end TRD Offroad Pro models. Have they been run hard for decades on the African continent or in other third world countries? Do we know for certain that the Grenadier can survive such use? The answer to both questions is "No". It remains to be seen.

Going forward Ineos may be forced to kowtow to Joe Average in the U.S. market and dish up horsepower numbers which the B58 can deliver if needed. I hope not because it's antithetical to their stated aim. (The B57 already outperforms the Toyota 2.8T diesel in real Land Cruisers and does well enough on the mileage front.) Maybe petrol Fieldmasters will get a hybrid option at some point to satisfy the stoplight-to-stoplight crowd. The ZF 8HP51s are already designed for it as part of the torque converter system. Again, that's really all Toyota has done with the new 250 in my opinion and it's a better option for some without a doubt - round headlights or no.

 

[Steve.B]

It's an SUV and no one will care about the V8. This isn't 1985. My father was 78 when he bought a 2.7t f150, and when I was kid he was a 460cid guy. It's power and tq, and mpg, of which the Gren is mysteriously a tad low on all three. Normally theres an exchange.

Ive had the G, the 110NAS, and every US LC model, some twice. As a package, none of them really touched the LC's. Drivers being equal, I don't doubt the new LC/LX will do everything the gren does, but better for 3/5 to 3/4 the price. Company wise, it's its the kingpin. It's Mike tyson vs a newborn. It should.

I just don't want it. It's bland. Unexciting. The round headlights don't make it look retro, they just look out of place compared the lexus sibling. If I wanted technology instead of a front locker I'd take the defender air ride, even though Toyota atrc is awesome and they have proven IFS with a highly articulating solid rear is the grand compromise for comfort and keeping the tires planted. Even the G followed in the LC's footsteps. It had no choice. On paper it's a success, and it will meet those expectations. But for me, It's third place behind the Gren and Defender, and not a close third at that.

In this case it is Mike Tyson vs James Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield, or Lenox Lewis.