Grenadier V G-Wagon

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
The Grenadier owes some of its styling and heritage to the G-Wagon as well as the old Defender. At £125,000 for the diesel G-Wagon it can fairly be argued that there really is no fair comparison. However, bearing in mind both offer a  3.0 d litre diesel version, what makes the Mercedes so much more powerful and quicker than the BMW variant?  Is it that they are aimed at different markets and the Mercedes has been tuned accordingly or is the Mercedes that much better? 
 

Sebastian

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
very good question, I've asked myself the same. the Mercedes has 80 HP more though (and weighs less I think). But is it enough to explain the difference? on 0-100 km/h it's > 3 sec. difference (not that I want a race car but a bit faster then 9,9 sec. to 100 km/h would be nice I have to admit).

edit: I was referring to the MB G400d. 330 HP and 6,4 sec. to 100. the 350d has 286 HP and needs 7,4 sec. to 100
 

The real heir

Contributor
I think you can't really compare those two cars. Most of the new G wagon and even a lot of the old versions haven' seen a wet meadow. The new one still is made for offroad but clearly the setup is more road orientated. On the other hand the Grenni is made for offroad use. So as Sir Jim said in the last interview, focussed on reliability. It' wouldn't e a problem pumping up the B57/58 far over 300 hp, but with what aim? And I don't know how the axels would like that...

But I'm not a pro or even a technician...
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
You can easily tune the BMW Diesel to the power of the G. I've heard of 500HP, but I am not an expert. 330HP is for sure no problem.

The question is which priorities one (car-maker as well as customer) sets. For me, 249 HP are enough. But that's a personal preference: longevity.
 

rovie

Contributor
Longevity is no longer desired today - not even at BMW. It is not only the power and engine capacity. My engines are never revved up when cold. In two of my vehicles TD5 engines are fitted. One engine blew up at 100k and was replaced with a new one. The engine in the second vehicle passed 330k this afternoon. So far without any problems. The one engine must have been mounted on a Monday. For the second one, I don't know if it was a Tuesday or Thursday. ?
 

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Here in the UK I would wager that most Grenadiers will spend 90% plus of their lives on tarmac.  I would like to know that my Grenadier will hold its own against the competition both on and off road. Should this vehicle be heavily weighted in favour of its off road abilities only, with its on road behaviour being a distant second, it might not be the solution I have been looking for. That said I have owned Defenders for nearly 25 years so my bar obviously starts pretty low. ?
 

CheJ

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
[QUOTE username=Cheshire cat userid=8997814 postid=1333116160]Here in the UK I would wager that most Grenadiers will spend 90% plus of their lives on tarmac.  I would like to know that my Grenadier will hold its own against the competition both on and off road. Should this vehicle be heavily weighted in favour of its off road abilities only, with its on road behaviour being a distant second, it might not be the solution I have been looking for. That said I have owned Defenders for nearly 25 years so my bar obviously starts pretty low. 
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[/QUOTE]

Spot on, if you’re looking for a go-fast on road vehicle and don’t value the off road dynamics and reliability of the Grenadier then it’s probably not the vehicle you are looking for at this stage. A Tesla Model X will smoke lambo’s and ferraris and can trundle along a dirt road if needed, maybe that’s what you’re looking for.
 

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
The Grenadier is exactly what I am looking for provided its on road performance is in the ballpark of Land Rover and not that of Suzuki. For £60,000 plus, I see no reason why that won’t be the case. 
 

Tazzieman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
I couldn't really care less about power/torque/0-100 times.I just want the highest rating of reliability + low service costs!For someone who can't claim business expenses , and likes to get out and drive - and DIY....
 

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
[QUOTE username=Tazzieman userid=8441415 postid=1333118892]I couldn't really care less about power/torque/0-100 times.I just want the highest rating of reliability + low service costs!For someone who can't claim business expenses , and likes to get out and drive - and DIY....



Fully understand where you are coming from. Where you live I can imagine why you would prioritise reliability over performance. Makes total sense.
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
[QUOTE username=Cheshire cat userid=8997814 postid=1333118094]The Grenadier is exactly what I am looking for provided its on road performance is in the ballpark of Land Rover and not that of Suzuki. [/QUOTE]
The numbers are known:
  • 2.7 tonnes
  • 249 HP (Diesel)
  • 550 NM (Diesel)
  • 160 Kmh Vmax.
What's unclear?
 

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
The premise of my question is why the Mercedes and Land Rover engines sport so much more horse power and acceleration off the shelf. I can ask Ineos tomorrow when I go and see the vehicle for real. 
 

Red pepper

Contributor
Reservation Holder
Founding Guard
[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1333121195]
The numbers are known:
  • 2.7 tonnes
  • 249 HP (Diesel)
  • 550 NM (Diesel)
  • 160 Kmh Vmax.
What's unclear?[/QUOTE]

For the Mercedes G CDI 300 Professional :
- 2450 kg
- 184 HP
- 400 Nm
- 160 Kmh 
 

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
I am comparing the Grenadier to the G-Wagon diesel as on the Mercedes website

2,508 Kg
326 Bhp
700 NM 
130 MPH

 and the 3.0 diesel Defender.

2,340 Kg
295 Bhp
650 NM
119 MPH

Both appear significantly more powerful. Just wondering why that might be. Nothing more than that. 
On purchase, to fit in with my needs I will be having my Grenadier  tuned in the same way as I did my Defender which following over 100,000 reliable miles is still putting out 230 bhp on the rolling road (Stock was 120). Using good fuel, in a temperate climate and on comparatively good roads, my Grenadier should be well capable of delivering similar output figures to that of its competitors.  
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
But then it seems clear.

The G and the Playmobil have clearly less Kg/HP to accelerate and have a higher Vmax.
If the Grenadier is tuned, it might catch up and be on par with the competitors.

No questions so far, except for the tuning - which is IMHO just a question of priorities.

> more powerful. Just wondering why that might be

Because of the different priorities: more power at the traffic lights.

They set it up differently, a software thing. More
 

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
 If I lived in Ireland it would now be somewhat academic as I understand the purchase price for the Belstaff is in the region of 115,000 Euro's. 
 

stickshifter

Contributor
Reservation Holder
The premise of my question is why the Mercedes and Land Rover engines sport so much more horse power and acceleration off the shelf. I can ask Ineos tomorrow when I go and see the vehicle for real.
Just a head's up: some folk on this forum can get a little defensive if you bring up the Grenadier's power and torque in comparison to the competition (whether it is the new Defender, the 200-series Landcruiser, the Ford Bronco, the new 3.0 inline six from Stellantis, or the G-Wagon). I'm not trying to be rude or combative - that's just been my experience. Hopefully, people can listen to each other without feeling that their personal choice to buy a Grenadier is being attacked when someone voices criticism or concern about the Grenadier - which is still, after all, a vehicle that none of us has actually driven.
 

AZGrenadier

Contributor
Founding Guard
My Airstream has a 3l diesel with roughly 190hp and 325lb/ft of torque and moves pretty decently. I would imagine the Grenadier moves significantly better with 100 more horsepower and 4000 less pounds. I am not expecting it to be a rocket but I don't think it will have any problems getting up any hills. I wish it it had another 100hp but it is what it is. Look at the Bronco, pretty sure they just had a big recall on engines seizing up. Now I don't know if that is just due to pushing the little engine too hard or some other reason but I will be happy with the Grenadiers output if it ends up being as reliable as I hope it will be. I figure a brand new model from a brand new english car company built in french plant, what could possibly go wrong.
 
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