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Grenadier Trailer Plug

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Sep 11, 2022
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Australia
Does anyone have a picture of the round trailer plug (not the NATO 2 Pin for power) that's right side of the hitch, when facing the rear of the car?

It looks like a 7 pin round but can anyone confirm?

My camper trailer plug is 12 pin flat with pin number 8 for break-safe charging. Would I have to get the Grenadier re-wired with a 12 pin plug, or would a 12 pin female flat to 7 pin round male adaptor work?
 
Hey there. It’s a 13 pin round Euro.
Unusual in Australia, but many on here say they are a good thing.
In talking to a couple of Ineos guys they said they contemplated changing it, but ended up sticking with it as it is a good thing. That said there isn’t a trailer brake wire so it will need to be adapted.
 
Hey there. It’s a 13 pin round Euro.
Unusual in Australia, but many on here say they are a good thing.
In talking to a couple of Ineos guys they said they contemplated changing it, but ended up sticking with it as it is a good thing. That said there isn’t a trailer brake wire so it will need to be adapted.
There are at least two spare pins of the 13 pins which can be utilised for the 12V supply from the brake controller ..
 
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There is some variation in style but they basically look like this, showing male and female sides (they are stronger than the pathetic flat style plug used in Australia). 13 pin Euro right of hitch, NATO left of hitch:

IBEOS plugs.jpg


th-1835068454.jpg


MA-MP128.jpg
 
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The Ineos Australia Guys last November said they used pin12 for the electric brakes.

Cheers
Steve
 
Apparently they are wired like this, but I have no first hand knowledge, maybe someone from the UK or Europe can confirm:

13-pin-electrics-diagram.png



EDIT: see also Rok Dr Guide at Appendix 3.
 
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So the upshot is, you can probably set up your own van / trailer etc with a 13 pin being a better set up, but you’ll probably also need to buy an adapter to 7 pin flat or round because everyone else in the country uses them, and invariably you’ll be towing something with that set up some time in your life. Anyway that’s my take on it.
 
So the upshot is, you can probably set up your own van / trailer etc with a 13 pin being a better set up, but you’ll probably also need to buy an adapter to 7 pin flat or round because everyone else in the country uses them, and invariably you’ll be towing something with that set up some time in your life. Anyway that’s my take on it.
Exactly and the adapters are small enough to carry thin the car at any time.
 
So the upshot is, you can probably set up your own van / trailer etc with a 13 pin being a better set up, but you’ll probably also need to buy an adapter to 7 pin flat or round because everyone else in the country uses them, and invariably you’ll be towing something with that set up some time in your life. Anyway that’s my take on it.
I ended up switching all my trailers to 13 pin. They are just better. I do carry an adapter in case I need it though.
 
There is some variation in style but they basically look like this, showing male and female sides (they are stronger than the pathetic flat style plug used in Australia). 13 pin Euro right of hitch, NATO left of hitch:

View attachment 7808885

View attachment 7808882

View attachment 7808881

Is the NATO socket at the rear of the Grenadier connected to the 500A (EXT4) overhead switch? If so I assume the wires used to supply the rear NATO socket would be very thick to handle 500A. Anyone know what gauge wire it would be (0AWG/B&S)?
 
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Is the NATO socket at the rear of the Grenadier connected to the 500A (EXT4) overhead switch? If so I assume the wires used to supply the rear NATO socket would be very thick to handle 500A. Anyone know what gauge wire it would be (0AWG/B&S)?
The specs of the rear NATO plug can be read here (wire size listed under the image).

nato-female-spec-jpg.7808968
 
I just posted on the NATO thread “doc” but would it be possible to charge up the two batteries in my trialmaster via the NATO plug?
 
I just posted on the NATO thread “doc” but would it be possible to charge up the two batteries in my trialmaster via the NATO plug?
I do not believe the car is wired that way, but I do not know for sure. I would wire an Anderson plug into the charger to trickle charge, then you get all the safety features.
 
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I tested the 13 Euro to 12 pin trailer adaptor I purchased from Vanline (no affiliation) and can confirm that all lights (indicators, stop, hazard, clearance & side-marker lamps) are working as they should.


The one thing I haven't been able to confirm (yet) is whether my caravans break-safe is being charged when using the adaptor. Does anyone know how I can test this? The attached image of my caravans 12pin plug indicates that pin 8 is used for break-safe charging. Is it simply a matter of testing the outlet of pin 8 on the adaptors 12pin female side with a voltmeter, to see if there's voltage coming through?
 

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I tested the 13 Euro to 12 pin trailer adaptor I purchased from Vanline (no affiliation) and can confirm that all lights (indicators, stop, hazard, clearance & side-marker lamps) are working as they should.


The one thing I haven't been able to confirm (yet) is whether my caravans break-safe is being charged when using the adaptor. Does anyone know how I can test this? The attached image of my caravans 12pin plug indicates that pin 8 is used for break-safe charging. Is it simply a matter of testing the outlet of pin 8 on the adaptors 12pin female side with a voltmeter, to see if there's voltage coming through?

Ok, this is not straightforward but it is longwinded. Grab a coffee...
  • I found an undated copy of the BreakSafe series 6000 manual with a wiring diagram posted by AOR here and probably a current but also undated download available from the manufacturer RV Electronics here.
  • The copy from AOR says to wire the BreakSafe charger to the auxiliary line on pin 2. The current copy from RV has deleted the reference to pin 2 and says to wire the charger to the auxiliary line.
  • Oddly, pin 2 was never the auxiliary line in the 12 pin wiring standard via AS4177.5-2004.
  • This 2021 Jayco document shows pin 2 as the auxiliary line so perhaps the BreakSafe instructions were originally written for Jayco non-standard standard wiring 🤷‍♂️.
  • In AS4177.5-2004 pin 2 is the reverse signal pin which is mostly unused. The Auxiliary is pin 9.
  • On pages 14 and 15 of this May 2025 Jayco document pin 8 is Batt+ and Pin 9 is unused in typical Jayco wiring installations.
So much for wiring standards huh?

Why does any of that matter:
Your caravan wiring diagram is expecting a BreakSafe charging current on pin 8. That's a Batt+ pin and complies with AS4177.5-2004 (the standard that Narva use).
But that's not the Auxiliary pin that RV Electronics say to use in their current BreakSafe wiring instructions. I cannot find anything conclusive but I think pin 8 is constant +12v and pin 9 is supposed to be ignition switched +12v.
That difference aside, either pin 8 or 9 will supply +12v to the BreakSafe charger when your tow vehicle is running. Pin 9 is a better choice because it's ignition switched so it won't add another drain to your tow vehicle battery if the caravan is plugged in and your vehicle is not running.
For example, this AOR document has the BreakSafe charger powered through pin 9.
Sooo.....

If your previous tow vehicle was wired to the 12 pin standard AS4177.5-2004 everything should have worked when you plugged in directly. Pin 8 was charging your Breaksafe unit. Happy days 🍻
But now you're using an adapter to a 13 pin Euro socket and all bets are off.

Here's a comparison of 12 pin versus 13 pin functions. I've added bold to highlight to the power circuits we're discussing.
(The forum software hates data tables)

Wire colour12 pin Aust
Pin #​
Wire colour13 pin Euro
YellowLeft-Hand Turn
1​
YellowLeft-hand direction indicator light
BlackReversing Signal
2​
BlueRear fog light
WhiteEarth Return
3​
WhiteCommon return for contacts no. 1 to 8
GreenRight-Hand Turn
4​
GreenRight-hand direction indicator light
BlueService Brakes
5​
BrownRight-hand rear, position and marker lights and license plate lamp
RedStop Lamps
6​
RedBrake lights
BrownRear Lamps, Clearance and Side Markers
7​
BlackLeft-hand rear, position and marker lights and license plate lamp
OrangeBattery Charger
8​
PinkReversing light
PinkAuxiliary /Batt +
9​
OrangePower supply (steady, constant)
WhiteEarth Return
10​
GreyPower supply controlled by ignition switch
GreyRear Fog Lamp
11​
White/BlackCommon return for pin 10
PurpleAuxiliaries
12​
-Reserved for future allocation
13​
White/RedCommon return for pin 9

I'll assume Vanline's adapter follows AS4177.5-2004 at the 12 pin end and ISO 11446 at the 13 pin end just like above. The 13 pin ISO11446 deets come from here.
Vanline will have cross-mapped the pins so everything works, kinda. Straightoff you can see a couple of problems though:
  • Pins 5 and 7 of the 13 pin standard need to be combined onto pin 7 of the 12 pin standard. This also needs diodes installed to work properly. The Narva adapter has this. Presumably the Vanline adapter does also.
  • There is no pin 5 service brake (electric trailer brakes) in the 13 pin standard.
To keep it interesting, Ineos (or Magna, or Aptiv) didn't fully follow ISO11446 in the early builds. Pins 10, 11 and 12 were not fitted (pic). Maybe this only affects MY23 builds. Not a huge consequence but it means the IGN+ passthrough circuit is missing.
I have seen evidence that this changed for MY24 AUS/NZ delivered vehicles and the wiring functions were changed to make the 13 pin Euro work better with Aus 7 and 12 pin adapters, plus the incorporation of wiring (only?) for electric service brakes. More on this below.

MY23 13 pin Euro plug (Aus delivered vehicle)
1764562705463.png


Testing
So back to your question @etbandit. It depends!
If Vanline connected pin 8/12 to pin 9/13 in their adapter it should work already. Plug in the adapter to the Grenadier and put a voltmeter across pin 8/12 (+12v) and pin 3/12 (ground) and see what you have.
> You will hopefully get constant power (key off) on pin 8/12 if Vanline wired pin 8/12 to pin 9/13.
Repeat this test with pins 9/12 and 3/12.

> You will probably not get any power on pin 9/12 because Vanline wouldn't know that Ineos didn't wire pin 10/13.
Please post back here with the results.

Note: Have you done something about your service brake circuit?

Is AUS/NZ MY24 different?
I've seen another wiring diagram that shows on MY24 AUS and NZ vehicles pins 3/13 and 10/13 are chassis grounds and pin 5/13 is wired for a service brake. Probably just wiring provisions back to the trailer module. I've not heard of any AUS/NZ vehicles delivered with a complete factory electric brake controller.
I'd love for someone to confirm these MY24 differences for AUS/NZ only:

13 pin Euro. ISO 11446. AUS/NZ MY24
PinFunction
1Left-hand direction indicator light
2Reversing light
3Chassis Ground for pins 1-7
4Right-hand direction indicator light
5Service Brake (pass through only or controller?)
6Brake lights
7Left-hand and right hand position lamps
8Power supply (steady, constant)
9-
10Chassis Ground for pins 8 and 11
11Fog lamps
12-
13-

HTH. I'm going for a lie-down 🛌
 
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