Front Drive Shaft Update

[Ovrland Bill]

Would you accept a top IA executive messaging me saying, “engineering investigating and analysis with supplier.” That is a direct quote from a message exchange on January 23, 2026.

Not questioning your veracity at all, but I believe we all deserve to hear about this from the primary source.

 

[Logsplitter]

Here is an excerpt from an email from Ineos HQ, which is part of a chain of emails between Ineos and myself. I have been in communication with them regarding the issues I’ve had with my vehicle. I have not received any clarity regarding which issue have been rectified and which are still under investigation, but I trust they are looking into the prop shaft issue.

“At this stage, we want to reassure you that every concern you have raised is either already subject to full root cause investigation or is currently part of on-going quality improvement work on early-build vehicles. This work helps our engineering teams to further strengthen the product.”
I’m pretty sure they are trying to sort a fix

 

[Tazzieman]

I doubt many, if any, drove at sustained US commuter speeds for 10k+ miles....

Or parking outside malls in Florida...

 

[parb]

Here is an excerpt from an email from Ineos HQ, which is part of a chain of emails between Ineos and myself. I have been in communication with them regarding the issues I’ve had with my vehicle. I have not received any clarity regarding which issue have been rectified and which are still under investigation, but I trust they are looking into the prop shaft issue.

“At this stage, we want to reassure you that every concern you have raised is either already subject to full root cause investigation or is currently part of on-going quality improvement work on early-build vehicles. This work helps our engineering teams to further strengthen the product.”
I’m pretty sure they are trying to sort a fix

the thing is... they can do nothing with the existing customer base and still be completely truthful in that sentence.
my immediate followup would have been, are you planning to introduce either a fix or a technical document describing the problem and what the owner can do to minimize being at risk for the problem to happen to their vehicles?

activity without an outcome so such a corporate "we say nothing" answer.

 

[skinny_tom]

activity without an outcome so such a corporate "we say nothing" answer.

This. Ineos is a major corporation. I suspect we are caught in the era of large bureaucracy investigating things rather than doing what the emerging car world is used to; ACTION.

I'm not ready for an electric car yet, but I'm more than ready for the pace at which those companies improve, implement and evaluate. (And burn through cash.)

Suppose Ineos began to replace the failing joints with an updated one. No promises that it's a 100% fix but it will be "better." Then the next generation of failures are met with the next improvement. In essence, we would be the Beta Testers of the drive shaft conundrum.

Would that be acceptable? Ineos is warranting (is that a word?) the drive shaft failure for unmodified cars and then some. Would you be willing to accept an imperfect update for free with the thought that it may be better than the last?

I bet their lawyers would never let them do it. Too much liability. It may come down to the fan base; Teslas fan-boys will accept anything that company presents as new and cool and are willing to accept the risks. Rivian makes (according to some evaluations) the least reliable car in the United States and continue to sell out of product. Seems to me like Ineos customers demand a perfect vehicle from day 1 and anything less in unacceptable. With that, we may have our answer as to why we're being treated to the corporate gaslight.

 

[Dokatd]

. Rivian makes (according to some evaluations) the least reliable car in the United States and continue to sell out of product. Seems to me like Ineos customers demand a perfect vehicle from day 1 and anything less in unacceptable. With that, we may have our answer as to why we're being treated to the corporate gaslight.

Can you cite this? I have owned 2 Rivian so far and have put considerable mileage on the first one. I have not found there to be any reliability issues to date. Sure there was a niggle or two on our 1st gen but those were minor annoyances at best. Neither truck has left us stranded and neither has had any drive train failure. We tow a large wake boat with them too.

Genuinely curious, I try my best to not be a Fan Boy, but Rivian has made it hard not to be. Plus the new Scout is based on Rivian architecture and software. I have one on order.

 

[skinny_tom]

Can you cite this? I have owned 2 Rivian so far and have put considerable mileage on the first one. I have not found there to be any reliability issues to date. Sure there was a niggle or two on our 1st gen but those were minor annoyances at best. Neither truck has left us stranded and neither has had any drive train failure. We tow a large wake boat with them too.

Genuinely curious, I try my best to not be a Fan Boy, but Rivian has made it hard not to be. Plus the new Scout is based on Rivian architecture and software. I have one on order.

It's not broken down by issue. It's also possible the Grenadier would suffer the same rating based solely on the number of CV joints that have failed.

Edit: I was mistaken. The Jeep Wrangler predicted reliability is 26.

 

[TCMColorado]

Sven made a drive shaft that might solve our problem. It is double cardan at the transfer case and a Rzeppa CV at the pinion. And it does not appear to need any adapters, bolts right up to the OEM flange on both ends. If this runs without vibrations or harmonics at all shaft RPMs and throttle positions then it will be a winner. It might even allow for proper caster of say +4° when used with adjustable upper control arms.

I am puzzled by the mixed use of socket head bolts and hex bolts on the TC flange as can be seen in the images.

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/game-changer-propshaft.12421473/

 

[Dokatd]

Sven made a drive shaft that might solve our problem. It is double cardan at the transfer case and a Rzeppa CV at the pinion. And it does not appear to need any adapters, bolts right up to the OEM flange on both ends. If this runs without vibrations or harmonics at all shaft RPMs and throttle positions then it will be a winner. It might even allow for proper caster of say +4° when used with adjustable upper control arms.

I am puzzled by the mixed use of socket head bolts and hex bolts on the TC flange as can be seen in the images.

https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/game-changer-propshaft.12421473/

His reports of no vibes is good news for me

 

[Zimm]

His reports of no vibes is good news for me

now where is he saying to get it?

 

[TCMColorado]

His reports of no vibes is good news for me

The question is, how much caster will be possible and how much lift before the safe operating angle of the double cardan joint is exceeded or it causes vibration. At some point pinching of the CV boot at the pinion could also become an issue.

 

[HeavyFoot]

He says it’ll be through DesignBuild Go. Nothing is up on a site yet. Dakota’s project is yet to be revealed, but I’m guessing is not too far off.

 

[Dokatd]

He says it’ll be through DesignBuild Go. Nothing is up on a site yet. Dakota’s project is yet to be revealed, but I’m guessing is not too far off.

Correct, but I'm not a vendor so I approve of Sven's concept for the time being. I'm not sure of the build quality or price.

My setup should be ready very very soon but will be made here in the states by a very high end shop.

 

[HeavyFoot]

Correct, but I'm not a vendor so I approve of Sven's concept for the time being. I'm not sure of the build quality or price.

My setup should be ready very very soon but will be made here in the states by a very high end shop.

So not being a vendor, will the design be sold by the shop you’re currently working with? Or will they be selling through multiple vendors? Curious minds want to know
And of course we’ll all be wondering how hard it’ll hit the wallet.

 

[Dokatd]

So not being a vendor, will the design be sold by the shop you’re currently working with? Or will they be selling through multiple vendors? Curious minds want to know
And of course we’ll all be wondering how hard it’ll hit the wallet.

The shop that is manufacturing will be the vendor. I get nothing, by the time I pay all my Scientists, Research team and lab coats it's a wash!

Stupid jokes aside, yes the vendor I have been developing with will sell the parts. It took me a long time to find a company qualified to build what I wanted. Like Radcliffe, I knew what I wanted so I made it happen.

I am hoping price will be minimal, especially since I won't be seeking any financial profits myself.

 

[HeavyFoot]

If it all works out we can each mail you $1 royalty. That ought to at least get you a tank of gas.
This will be an exciting development if either/both of these work out! The Achilles heel may be fixed

 

[Max]

The shop that is manufacturing will be the vendor. I get nothing, by the time I pay all my Scientists, Research team and lab coats it's a wash!

Stupid jokes aside, yes the vendor I have been developing with will sell the parts. It took me a long time to find a company qualified to build what I wanted. Like Radcliffe, I knew what I wanted so I made it happen.

I am hoping price will be minimal, especially since I won't be seeking any financial profits myself.

HaHa

Jokes aside some recognition would be appropriate, naming rights or a Dokatd factor symbol somewhere

 

[HeavyFoot]

HaHa

Jokes aside some recognition would be appropriate, naming rights or a Dokatd factor symbol somewhere

I completely agree. Perhaps an appropriate “I fixed what INEOS couldn’t” T-shirt.

 

[Sammyd]

So no one should be buying these if they plan on driving on highways at 80 mph?
This is a big issue for prospective buyers, who don’t want to carry a spare shaft or boot on long family trips. Deal breaker, it just a nuisance like the HVAC. It can be life threatening driving on the interstate at high speeds.

 

[TCMColorado]

So no one should be buying these if they plan on driving on highways at 80 mph?

If the shaft made by Sven or the one in the works by Dokatd function as expected then highway speeds of +80 mph are not an issue. This is because the CV at the pinion combined with the double cardan joint at the transfer case will theoretically not produce any vibrations.

However, a shaft with single u-joints at each end will have vibrations/harmonics and is not recommend for highway use. A shaft of this style is currently sold by Agile Off Road.