Front Drive Shaft Update

[hon1nbo]

I was confused about your post, but then guessed that you were responding to somebody (presumably an 8 year old boy) who I had already blocked.

Every forum has one.

Oh just someone who was being antagonistic and accusing me of willful ignorance in this whole situation. Because I'm on Reddit I must be on all social media and have seen this posted all over my feed </s>

 

[Logsplitter]

This appears to be an electrical fire based on the two heavy gauge cables with the insulation completely burned off. What happened first - did the failed driveshaft damage some cabling and start an electrical fire, or did the electrical fire start on its own and ignite the driveshaft grease? Please keep us posted.

The two large cables with outer plastic cover missing are not electrical cables. They are the transfer box Bowden cables.

 

[outono]

I think @Zimm ia being a bit over the top here. Lots of people with lifts are openly stating they will continue using rzeppa joints over the Agile. So I guess we’re all being willfully ignorant…

The Agile may very well cause other issues down the line anyway due to increased vibrations. And it’s clear it’s not a long term solution.

 

[ECrider]

Wow, that is a lot of damage from a shaft that didn't even completely let go. Someone had previously fabricated a drive shaft loop to help contain the shaft if it lets go, but this makes me think that is of little value, if that much damage can be done by the shaft without even completely letting loose..

I think it depends on the failure whether a loop will help or not. In my case a loop would've definitely helped contain the damage. I will still fit one and hope I don't get a failure, second to that I hope I notice start of boot failure and fix it before it unlives, thirdly it lets go and is contained - and way down the list is the molten shaft inferno like the poor chap above where perhaps the loop doesn't much help.

 

[jvkintheusa]

He confirmed 4 inch a few hours ago. I was premature in citing it, it was not confirmed when I posted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ineosgrenadier/s/ZXP8GjciaY

That doesn't look like a 4" lift

 

[hon1nbo]

That doesn't look like a 4" lift

Dealer claims it was 4"
but when I asked them to get confirmation from the prior owner they said he was unresponsive. Shop I was working with had asked owl a while back on how to drop it down below 4" and they said there wasn't a good way to identify the kit on an assembled system. It has the owl kit for sure, but I didn't have a good frame of reference.

EDIT to note: we are mid-road trip and that photo was after extinguisher use, but before the fire department showed up so it still has all the stuff in the vehicle. Not sure about ride height vs load in this case.

 

[Tazzieman]

That doesn't look like a 4" lift

Add 2.5 to 1.5 - front+rear - you could come up with that figure

 

[Tenac]

Dealer claims it was 4"
but when I asked them to get confirmation from the prior owner they said he was unresponsive. Shop I was working with had asked owl a while back on how to drop it down below 4" and they said there wasn't a good way to identify the kit on an assembled system. It has the owl kit for sure, but I didn't have a good frame of reference.

EDIT to note: we are mid-road trip and that photo was after extinguisher use, but before the fire department showed up so it still has all the stuff in the vehicle. Not sure about ride height vs load in this case.

I believe you can double check by measuring the bump stops, or which shocks you have. They also say if it was installed by them they will warranty the drive shaft, not sure if that follows to the new owner or not but worth a call??

 

[hon1nbo]

I believe you can double check by measuring the bump stops, or which shocks you have.

From what I've been told it comes down to the springs; I'd be happy to find whatever the truth of the matter is just wish I could have gotten these removed prior knowing what I know now. This is what my local outfitter who deals with Owl got back to me with:

Initially we were trying to see if there was a measurement or color difference between the different springs, but they said there is no positive way to confirm the difference between the 4" and the 2.5" Eibach springs. They said the best bet would be to get the name of the person who bought the lift and then they could cross-reference it and find the original order. Unfortunately, they are not willing to break into both kits and compare.

Personally don't even care for lifts; the used one had all the other stuff I was going to do (steering stabiliser, the racks, lights, interior storage, and other stuff already handled) and the lift was just there. I'm livid that this kind of design flaw exists, but moreso that the fire that could have gotten my disabled partner killed came from that stupid lift.

 

[hon1nbo]

I believe you can double check by measuring the bump stops, or which shocks you have. They also say if it was installed by them they will warranty the drive shaft, not sure if that follows to the new owner or not but worth a call??

We don't know who the original owner is; privacy laws and all. Without the original order info it would be impossible to know who installed it. I think the closest Owl Vans is in Oregon so unlikely it was actually them anyway.
They wouldn't break into a kit to give us measurements to identify the kit either.

 

[Tenac]

We don't know who the original owner is; privacy laws and all. Without the original order info it would be impossible to know who installed it. I think the closest Owl Vans is in Oregon so unlikely it was actually them anyway.
They wouldn't break into a kit to give us measurements to identify the kit either.

Yeah, I wouldn't think you need to know the owner but maybe OWL could look up the install. I'm sure there aren't that many, but to your point if not even close probably not even an option. I know some dealers actually do these installs etc but thought it might be worth a shot.

 

[Shopkeep]

Oh just someone who was being antagonistic and accusing me of willful ignorance in this whole situation. Because I'm on Reddit I must be on all social media and have seen this posted all over my feed </s>

When you buy a pre-owned Grenadier from an Ineos dealer do they have a “Ineos Approved” program like other major car brands? The type where they suggest they have done a 115 point certified safety and mechanical check etc.

 

[Asnes]

I think that maybe a false security. You may be covered for damages under warranty (though there has been talk of dealers denying for increased tires size even without any suspension modifications), but its pretty clear this will not keep you from experiencing the failure, there have been plenty of failures on non modified vehicles..

My Heart still really wants one, my mind is still on Red Alert over the idea though..

Yes understood on false security. But why tempt fate :|

 

[Clark Kent]

Why does the amount of lift matter? I'm not quite following the deep dive into that particular point.

1. The driveshaft CV appears to have failed.
2. This vehicle has a lift kit.

2 does not guarantee 1. The driveshaft is quite capable of failing by itself thank you.
I would say lift height will reduce the service life of the CV but the end result is the same. A bigger lift might get you there early. Seems like everyone is in a hurry these days.

The loose stats suggest that lift is becoming less relevant in this driveshaft issue but an aftermarket lift kit remains the #1 way to disconnect you from a related warranty claim. It's not just the cost of a replacement driveshaft or an aftermarket CV. This incident shows again how quickly the secondary damage costs can go up.

 

[Dokatd]

I'm convinced that the Owl 4" lift includes the tires. 2"+ suspension and about 3-4" taller tire.

A 4" lift would max out the stock drive shaft at about ride height. Much longer shocks than stock would allow the drive shaft to tear itself apart.

 

[Tazzieman]

This incident shows again how quickly the secondary damage costs can go up.

I'm wondering what the final bill will be, and who pays?

 

[Dokatd]

This whole thing is super fishy. Something is not right with this story. After looking at Owls site regarding the "4" lift" I'm seeing they use Eibach springs and their own shocks. This should be extremely easily identified. There is no way Owl can't help identifying the lift installed.

I'm not calling anyone out as I am certain there is some simple lack of interest or knowledge going on here by multiple people. And probably some CYA going on with a couple vendors. Completely understandable.

 

[hon1nbo]

This whole thing is super fishy. Something is not right with this story. After looking at Owls site regarding the "4" lift" I'm seeing they use Eibach springs and their own shocks. This should be extremely easily identified. There is no way Owl can't help identifying the lift installed.

I'm not calling anyone out as I am certain there is some simple lack of interest or knowledge going on here by multiple people. And probably some CYA going on with a couple vendors. Completely understandable.

I agree the fact they wouldn't give me an answer was strange. A company should know how to identify their own products. Some time has passed and I can try again. Given the situation I'd definitely push harder this time than I did previously.

I went to the dealer today to get a better look in the light and pickup my loaner.

Fire did in fact get to the engine before I put it out. It's more visible in better light.
We confirmed the fuel lines were compromised so petrol was probably the liquid burning.
Wiring harnesses are not only toast around the transmission/TC/shaft but the entire undercarriage forward of the rear axle.

Dealer has indicated they've had failures with and without lifts (though primarily lifts hinted), but nothing this bad.

I'll post more photos with better light when I'm home. Photo posts need the "big screen" of a laptop over a phone in my book

 

[Dokatd]

I agree the fact they wouldn't give me an answer was strange. A company should know how to identify their own products. Some time has passed and I can try again. Given the situation I'd definitely push harder this time than I did previously.

I went to the dealer today to get a better look in the light and pickup my loaner.

Fire did in fact get to the engine before I put it out. It's more visible in better light.
We confirmed the fuel lines were compromised so petrol was probably the liquid burning.
Wiring harnesses are not only toast around the transmission/TC/shaft but the entire undercarriage forward of the rear axle.

Dealer has indicated they've had failures with and without lifts (though primarily lifts hinted), but nothing this bad.

I'll post more photos with better light when I'm home. Photo posts need the "big screen" of a laptop over a phone in my book

Your truck is almost certainly considered totaled. Will you buy it back if so?

 

[hon1nbo]

Your truck is almost certainly considered totaled. Will you buy it back if so?

I'd want some of my stuff like side panels, the grenadier USA parts, my strobes/aux lights, etc all back. If I can harvest spare parts that are still good then those too.
I don't have anywhere to put a husk though. If I did making an electric grenny for short distance stuff would be a project that kicks butt