Front Drive Shaft Update

[Greasemonkey]

I check my CV joint boots weekly, or after every longer drive. So far, everything is fine. However, I've noticed now several times that the CV joints on the front driveshaft heat up differently. While the front CV joint on the front axle differential is around 56°C, the CV-joint on the transfer case was only about 35°C. Both differentials were about 33°C at the same time. The CV joints on the rear driveshaft were also only about 33°C.
I've also attached small microphones to detect noises near the two front CV joints and at the CV joint on the rear output of the transfer case. I can switch between the microphones and listen to the noises through headphones while driving.
The front differential is extremely quiet. The ZF transmission is louder but sounds normal. The Tremec transmission sounds like an old Series 1 with a broken gearbox. However, these noises are only audible when amplified through headphones. They're inaudible otherwise.

Currently about 25,000 km, all original, no lift kit.

 

[pmatusov]

I guess the sky is falling after all!?!

Not yet.
We know the design is bad, but there seems to be little rhyme or reason to the failing driveshafts.

 

[LRNAD90]

Just a suggestion to everyone posting that they have had a failure. Maybe include details like:

• Build Date
• Mileage at failure
• Springs (stock or otherwise)
• Shocks (stock or other wise)
• Tires (even though this shouldn't matter)
• And who your dealer is and what the response is..

 

[Karearea]

I check my CV joint boots weekly, or after every longer drive. So far, everything is fine. However, I've noticed now several times that the CV joints on the front driveshaft heat up differently. While the front CV joint on the front axle differential is around 56°C, the CV-joint on the transfer case was only about 35°C. Both differentials were about 33°C at the same time. The CV joints on the rear driveshaft were also only about 33°C.
I've also attached small microphones to detect noises near the two front CV joints and at the CV joint on the rear output of the transfer case. I can switch between the microphones and listen to the noises through headphones while driving.
The front differential is extremely quiet. The ZF transmission is louder but sounds normal. The Tremec transmission sounds like an old Series 1 with a broken gearbox. However, these noises are only audible when amplified through headphones. They're inaudible otherwise.

Currently about 25,000 km, all original, no lift kit.

Great “live” analysis
I just check mine constantly!
Even if it hasn’t driven anywhere

 

[OkGo]

Mine has just sheared off at the transfer case. 5hrs away from home just south of Humber bridge. Middle of nowhere. 2 dogs amd me very pissed off indeed. What tools do you need and the procedure to remove the shaft from front diff??

Hope you get home ok

 

[Tazzieman]

Just a suggestion to everyone posting that they have had a failure. Maybe include details like:

• Build Date
• Mileage at failure
• Springs (stock or otherwise)
• Shocks (stock or other wise)
• Tires (even though this shouldn't matter)
• And who your dealer is and what the response is..

Thread already open here:
Can't get link to work , sorry!
CV failure thread
https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/statistics-poll-thread-front-driveshaft-cv-joint-failures.12420239/

 

[Mountain4x4]

Something wrong with that link. This will be a 100% failure rate down the road as folks add miles I am confident. Its that bad. When no expert can even design a replacement with out vibrations and bad harmonics....Have you ever heard of that before?

 

[ORSO]

However, I've noticed now several times that the CV joints on the front driveshaft heat up differently. While the front CV joint on the front axle differential is around 56°C, the CV-joint on the transfer case was only about 35°C. Both differentials were about 33°C at the same time. The CV joints on the rear driveshaft were also only about 33°C.

The temperature control is very interesting. I've been wanting to do it for a while. The only empirical test I've done several times after a 45/50 minute highway session at 110-120 km/h is that it's hard to keep my hand on the transfer CV side . The diff side is cooler. I therefore believe it's well above 80°. As soon as possible, I'll check with a laser thermometer.

 

[Tazzieman]

The temperature control is very interesting. I've been wanting to do it for a while. The only empirical test I've done several times after a 45/50 minute highway session at 110-120 km/h is that it's hard to keep my hand on the transfer CV side . The diff side is cooler. I therefore believe it's well above 80°. As soon as possible, I'll check with a laser thermometer.

What TC temp does it say in the Offroad menu ( tyre section)?

 

[ORSO]

What TC temp does it say in the Offroad menu ( tyre section)?

45 max 55 degrees

(90/100 engine oil (diesel) - 80/90 gearbox)

 

[Tazzieman]

So does the cv boot become brittle with the heat? Could that be a failure point?

 

[pmatusov]

This will be a 100% failure rate down the road as folks add miles I am confident.

This applies to any, every, part.
As for the driveshaft, I'd guess a life expectancy of ~100kmi; we all know the examples far short and somewhat long of that mark.
This is not just the driveshaft thing with the Grenadier. If you track some bizarre electrical failures, it is the same thing. Basically, it looks like INEOS, closing in to the production rate, was frantically searching for bits and pieces here and there. Maybe one batch of the driveshafts was good and another - bad.

I am almost as paranoid as anyone else, but so far... last time I checked, my CV joints were barely warm to touch after a ~200-mile fast highway ride in Southern California. I couldn't even tell the difference in temperature between the axle and transfer case ends of the front driveshaft.
Could it be that some of them ended up in the trucks without any grease? Or poorly cast/machined center or outer?
This suggestion -

• Build Date
• Mileage at failure
• Springs (stock or otherwise)
• Shocks (stock or other wise)
• Tires (even though this shouldn't matter)

may be a key to this bug and the others.

 

[Greasemonkey]

Those were the temperatures displayed. The interesting thing is that the CV joint on the front differential gets over 50°C, while the other joints remain significantly cooler. If I'm seeing this correctly, it's the CV joint on the transfer case that's failing.

Perhaps this is only the case with my vehicle.

The reason I frequently check under the car is that I've been looking for a noise that sounds like a defective bearing from the very beginning. Since Ineos doesn't pay the dealer to search for a noise, they have no incentive to find it. Therefore, I have to take care of it myself before the warranty expires.

 

[Tom109]

Those were the temperatures displayed. The interesting thing is that the CV joint on the front differential gets over 50°C, while the other joints remain significantly cooler.

To be clear, by “temp of the CV joint”, are you saying temp of the rubber boot OR the actual CV housing?

 

[Greasemonkey]

The actual CV housing

 

[ORSO]

To be clear, by “temp of the CV joint”, are you saying temp of the rubber boot OR the actual CV housing?

Temperature of the CV housing

 

[ECrider]

Managed to get driveshaft off and drive to a pub. Can't be sure yet but seems damage only to a wiring loom near the tc. Wires seem ok but cowling buggered. I checked thoroughly the area prior to driving north on Sunday. There was no telltale issue. 13150miles no lift. Will post further on the other chat specs link. Tks to all and fingers to Ineos!!

 

[ECrider]

Hope you get home ok

Tks chap

 

[Tazzieman]

Managed to get driveshaft off and drive to a pub. Can't be sure yet but seems damage only to a wiring loom near the tc. Wires seem ok but cowling buggered. I checked thoroughly the area prior to driving north on Sunday. There was no telltale issue. 13150miles no lift. Will post further on the other chat specs link. Tks to all and fingers to Ineos!!

Any sign of prior grease leakage? Not fresh but contaminated by road dirt?

 

[ECrider]

Any sign of prior grease leakage? Not fresh but contaminated by road dirt?

not that i ever saw Tazzie, have been monitoring weekly since this became a 'thing' on here.