Front Drive Shaft Update

[Dokatd]

Here are pictures of the front drive shaft on my QM. Picking up next Friday.

Your caster is set almost to the lowest amount in that pic. Will be interesting to see how it feels to you.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Your caster is set almost to the lowest amount in that pic. Will be interesting to see how it feels to you.

I am taking into a shop two weeks after pick up to get Radflo suspension added. I'll have the before and after report to share.

 

[Zimm]

From the front motor mounts to the tarns/t-case mounts is a bit of a distance. I kind of agree that it would take several inches of shimming to appreciably change the front output angle. At that point we may be running out of room under the bonnet or under the floor. A cut and turn would probably get you a better angle at the transfer anyway despite the cost.

I'm just proposing an alternative to the cut and turn

 

[Zimm]

Don't reinvent the bicycle, unless you have some vested interest in unorthodox transportation.

Apparently you've never biked. There's big money in reinventing bikes.

 

[pmatusov]

Apparently you've never biked. There's big money in reinventing bikes.

Zimm, have you read the second part of the sentence you quoted?

 

[255/85]

... So maybe the stock boots are constantly stretched and that leads to failure.

Maybe stretched and pinched?
Maybe a better boot material would help?

 

[Dokatd]

Maybe stretched and pinched?
Maybe a better boot material would help?

Certainly pinched is an issue. But only when servicing the front end without shocks on it or if you run dramatically longer travel shocks.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Certainly pinched is an issue. But only when servicing the front end without shocks on it or if you run dramatically longer travel shocks.

No Load on axel or are you saying no shocks on it?

 

[Dokatd]

No Load on axel or are you saying no shocks on it?

No shocks. To easily change the springs on the front you have to remove the shocks so you can get enough room to install springs. Doing this without removing the drive shaft can lead to pinching the CV boot. But with the shocks on you do not get enough travel to max out the CV's boot assembly.

You get the same result if you run shocks with more extension. Or extend the existing mounts to increase droop.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Thanks, having new Radflo shocks added on 4/23. I will make sure they do one side at a time or disconnect the shaft

 

[Dokatd]

Thanks, having new Radflo shocks added on 4/23. I will make sure they do one side at a time or disconnect the shaft

Changing shocks out is generally not an issue. They should not drop the axle much if any.

But people should be cautious about shops using two post lifts on their trucks and working on suspension.

 

[angstorms]

AO dropped there new front drive shaft, with dual u-joints. I was looking at

Heavy Duty Front Drive Shaft for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad​

$1,449.99

 

[Commodore]

1350 U-Joints are the real deal. They are easy to come by and totally serviceable. John is the man.

 

[Dokatd]

That's a lot of money for a pretty basic shaft. Especially when the joint angles exceed the continuous operating limit of the joints. Will be interesting to see how people respond to this shaft once in use. My front shaft with the lift is sitting at 13° on the front joint and about 15° on the t-case side. At about that angle you will start feeling vibes from a Ujoint shaft at highway speeds when you transition on and off the power. This is why Tom Woods wouldn't make a shaft.

The continuous operating angle of a 1350 U-joint is typically:

• 3 degrees or less for long-term, high-speed operation (to avoid vibration and wear)
• Up to about 7 degrees for short-term or low-speed use

In practice these angles are exceeded all the time with varying degrees of success. But, when shafts fail it causes an awful mess and in the case of the front shaft it can even take out the transmission case. My buddy had one fail on his D90 at highway speeds and it came up through the passenger floor board .

 

[Tenac]

That's a lot of money for a pretty basic shaft. Especially when the joint angles exceed the continuous operating limit of the joints. Will be interesting to see how people respond to this shaft once in use. My front shaft with the lift is sitting at 13° on the front joint and about 15° on the t-case side. At about that angle you will start feeling vibes from a Ujoint shaft at highway speeds when you transition on and off the power. This is why Tom Woods wouldn't make a shaft.

The continuous operating angle of a 1350 U-joint is typically:

• 3 degrees or less for long-term, high-speed operation (to avoid vibration and wear)
• Up to about 7 degrees for short-term or low-speed use

In practice these angles are exceeded all the time with varying degrees of success. But, when shafts fail it causes an awful mess and in the case of the front shaft it can even take out the transmission case. My buddy had one fail on his D90 at highway speeds and it came up through the passenger floor board .

I'm learning here, are you saying due to the angle being greater than 3 and 7 degrees for permeant use (bc I'm lifted) the angle will cause the oem drive shaft to fail? Or this design will fail due to that?

 

[angstorms]

In Europe they have another option now with Sven, there is post on forum about now.

"New specific transmission shaft Grenadier, planned for a 2.5-3 inches increase, double UJ box side and CV joint in addition 15 degrees, no harmonic vibration, mounting with specific tulip bridge side."

 

[Commodore]

In Europe they have another option now with Sven, there is post on forum about now.

"New specific transmission shaft Grenadier, planned for a 2.5-3 inches increase, double UJ box side and CV joint in addition 15 degrees, no harmonic vibration, mounting with specific tulip bridge side."

I saw that last week on a FB group. The u-joints are 1310's. I'm not so sure that they are big enough but time will tell. It is an interesting approach. Any idea what the price is going to be?

 

[Commodore]

The path that I really wish someone would go down is designing or finding a better high speed Rzeppa boot. It isn't the joint that mechanically fails but rather the boot rips and spills the grease and then the joint fails from lack of lubrication or contamination or both. Here is a boot that certainly appears to be able to handle a more acute angle than the factory one.

High Speed CV Joint Boot Retainer 4.236" Diameter

Retainer only. High Speed CV Joint Boot Retainer 4.236" Diameter

makodriveshafts.com

 

[angstorms]

The path that I really wish someone would go down is designing or finding a better high speed Rzeppa boot. It isn't the joint that mechanically fails but rather the boot rips and spills the grease and then the joint fails from lack of lubrication or contamination or both. Here is a boot that certainly appears to be able to handle a more acute angle than the factory one.

High Speed CV Joint Boot Retainer 4.236" Diameter

Retainer only. High Speed CV Joint Boot Retainer 4.236" Diameter

makodriveshafts.com

View attachment 7895374

I agree, the metal fitting could also be improved along with larger flange, currently they look like they are stamped when I looked the Terraflex CV, rubber material is another area they could improve as you said.

 

[Dokatd]

I'm learning here, are you saying due to the angle being greater than 3 and 7 degrees for permeant use (bc I'm lifted) the angle will cause the oem drive shaft to fail? Or this design will fail due to that?

Ugh, I lost a long explanation of this and don't have the energy to retype. But, your stock Rzeppa shaft is good until the grease boot fails. The 3° deal is in regards to the proposed design from Agile. Their shaft simply exceeds the continuous operating limit by a fair bit. Not saying it won't work, it may or may not cause vibrations and may or may not fail in 20k miles or less. But your boot MAY fail in the same time frame. The new aftermarket Terra joints have been reliable so far with only one public report of a boot failure.