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Comparaison Grenadier / Mercedes Classe G

DaveB

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@DaveB sometimes its better to maintain some distance to this kind of people. Life lasts longer..
Yes. But they should not be allowed to win.
About 10 years ago?? the Queensland State Government decided they had enough and banned bikies
It changed everything and reduced the tension and troubles immensely
these guys were no doubt drug dealers, but shows how stupid they are to advertise the fact.


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klarie

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@DaveB .. hm the problem is far more difficult. In Australia, New Zealand and of course Germany - there are quite strict gun laws to law abiding persons.

I am aware this is now getting very OFF TOPIC. However it is difficult to put it elsewhere.

Criminals don't care. ( I am not in law enforcement, but together with some former experts and a few colleagues we were developing some software that allows "profiling".
That profiling had other issues in mind - e.g. hack attacks, prediction of impacts if a certain machine in an assembly line fails etc.
But profiling of criminal organisations was also an interesting use case - patterns of activity.. e.h. who what, how, victims, when, gain, - methods of cleaning up, and so on.
So to get signatures and behavioural patterns. - Little to imagine that this concept is transferrable to many daily applications, customer behaviour, and so on.
Due to this I got some insight .. it already quite a while ago. But most of it might still be true:

Many years ago there were a bunch of Albanians in Frankfurt, controlled drugs, redlight district, and kind of illegal / frauding with gambling on street - thimblerig etc..
Drive-By shootings with select-fire / fully automatic firearms happened there. We had an office close to Frankfurt Central - and my assistant was there in a car and bulled flied over her head. Police Special Units (SEK) were then sent out (after a very long time tolerating this ) indeed short before elections - and the Albanians were more or less entirely eradicated - out of business, arrested - went of to other places outside Germany. -

So there was demand, and the market was still there. So the HA moved in. Not in public - but rather silent. No drive by shootings, no issues. So for ordinary people and business - there were no harm and risk. If people went in there seeking trouble they got what they asked for. - Still addicts are there, homeless, whores. But the HA had it somewhat under control - and here and there, if certain groups tried to move in - the police got somehow informed - but nothing from inside HA. Was a kind of gentlemen agreement.

But generation changed - different type of HA members, new nationalities, the raise of the Bandido MC, - and lower politicians that need to profile for a career.. so instead of resolving the real problem, social improvments education.. they took the low hanging fruit and the easy to identify Outlaw MCs.

Now its different - because what they didn't touch were the gangsters and gentlemen criminals in the background. -
What we have now are certain groups of eastern Europe establishing themselves (from countries currently fighting a war.. and even if we should avoid politics.. the UA is not as nice and friendly as everybody thinks it is) So - we ve got an illegal firearms business, drugs, whores, protection rackets, blackmailed police - (we know where your residence is) witness and judges. And sponsor certain politicians as well. That is perhaps anywhere else in the west the very same.


To me, its quite interesting.. in countries / states with relaxed gun laws - there are perhaps more gun accidents.
But mass shootings and crime occurs mostly where people relate to much on government and stricter gun laws.

The press notices of mass shootings are always where no response is possible, - any attempted mass shooting that were prevented / stopped by an armed bystander aren't making it to the media.

The big Mercedes Benz G, Range Rovers, and others are very attractive to these type of criminal - not really a signature vehicle by the top levels (they prefer other type of street transport) Its more the middle management and "service teams" that use these.

I am glad Ineos Grenadier is more down to earth, not a luxury vehicle and on about 100mph top speed and a newbie - not really in focus of this business. (It might change in the future - if Ineos establishes itself beyond original idea)

But -what is happening here and perhaps at Gold Coast (AUS) and elsewhere is mostly political fault. Tax spending elsewhere, instead of investing in police and crime prevention measures. Keeping citizens safe, allowing responsibility and civil rights. Instead politicians mind their private business first - and use sometimes criminal activities as a decoy or even take profits of it.

That is reality as I see it. To bad everywhere the same.
 

Krabby

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My friend owns a bar and, while I respect the opinions of everyone, I adhere to his methodology to avoid discussing religion, politics, and whether a hotdog is a sandwich.
 
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VehicleIneos GrenadierG-WagonDef. 110 (real)Jeep 4-door Rubicon4-Door Bronco
InchesMMInchesMMInchesMMInchesMMInchesMM
Length (w/spare)191.24895189.74817182.64640188.44785198.95052.1
Width (w/mirrors)84.5214686.1218770.5+1790+73.8+1874.52+86.22189.5
Height80.2205077.5196979.6218173.61869.4473-78.71854-1999
Wheelbase1152922113.828901102794118.43007.36116.12948.94
Front Overhang33.488734.5387725.6649
Rear Overhang34.48743383947.11196
GC10.42649.52419.824910.8274.328.3-11.5210.82-292.6
Apr.36.235.5313148.748.743.943.935.5-43.235.5-43.2
Breakover28.228.22626313122.622.620-26.320-26.3
Dep.36.136.1303035.635.6373729.7-3729.7-37
Grade.45453535454541/4841/48
Wading31.580027.57012050031787.433.5-36.4850.9-924.56


This is far from perfect as I had to use a variety of sources (and sometimes the previous model year), but I think it puts everything into perspective. I couldn't find overhang numbers on the JK or Bronco, nor could I find the tilt on the Broncos. For the JK, the width does not include the mirrors. Moreover, there are many, many factory specs for the Bronco so I mostly put the base and then used the Everglades edition numbers too. The Raptor version, which takes everything to insane levels, was ignored.

One other interesting thing - I found one graphic showing the Jeep with two tilt angles, one to the left and one to the right. That never crossed my mind, but I guess it makes sense because I doubt trucks have a 50-50 weight distribution down the centerline (offset diffs, battery, etc.).
Thanks for posting this! Its a lot of work to get all the numbers, as manufacturers don't always make it easy.

A popular option around here when people buy a Jeep Rubicon, is the "Recon Off-Road Package" which replaces the 33-inch tires with 35s, and replaces the axle gearing from 4.10 to 4.56 (with an option for 4.88). This improves ground clearance by an inch, water fording depth, and it also improves approach, departure, and break-over angles. Its great that it comes with correct gearing for the tire-size, so that there is no loss of power - one of the big advantages of factory-offered modifications. Ford is doing a great job with their factory-built off-road packages as well. Even Chevy has finally gotten on board. So if a buyer wants to stick with stock tires, which have significant advantages, they can. If a buyer wants a factory-built off-road upgrade (better at the technical off-road stuff, not as good on-road, worse fuel economy, more expensive tires) they have that choice.
 

Krabby

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I love the factory installed stuff for two reasons - 1) In theory it is specifically designed by the manufacturer so it's a proper thing and 2) It's under warranty! That's a massive plus.

@stickshifter Where is "around here?"
 
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I love the factory installed stuff for two reasons - 1) In theory it is specifically designed by the manufacturer so it's a proper thing and 2) It's under warranty! That's a massive plus.

@stickshifter Where is "around here?"
Exactly! Anyone who has modded a vehicle knows that it can be really rewarding, or really time-consuming and frustrating. Its great to get stuff like a suspension lift, larger tires, and gears from the factory. Its all been properly engineered, the full-size spare will fit, there will be no rubbing, you have factory-specc'd gear ratios, and its under warranty. At this point in my life, I want to spend my time in the mountains, not on my back under my truck. I'm still happy to do basic service, but I want the factory to build the truck!

Used to live in Nederland, CO (about 3,000 feet above Boulder). Now we are on the Western slope.
 

Tazzieman

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Not to hate on G wagens , which are hugely capable, but are now over the top townie cars.
But a couple of years ago at a Maybach launch party (lol, free champagne, sorry) I sat in a new G wagen and instantly gave me the impression that I was simultaneously a dick and a ponce . Which I don't think I am.
My son said now you need to start trafficking something.
The day I sat in a grenadier I felt people would still judge me , sometimes harshly - but differently.
It's interesting how image drives design and marketing.
 

DaveB

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Not to hate on G wagens , which are hugely capable, but are now over the top townie cars.
But a couple of years ago at a Maybach launch party (lol, free champagne, sorry) I sat in a new G wagen and instantly gave me the impression that I was simultaneously a dick and a ponce . Which I don't think I am.
My son said now you need to start trafficking something.
The day I sat in a grenadier I felt people would still judge me , sometimes harshly - but differently.
It's interesting how image drives design and marketing.
Without meaning to be sexist the Grenadier looks more masculine and tradesman/workman's vehicle.
Much more like an old Defender or a 70 series is viewed
 

Tazzieman

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Without meaning to be sexist the Grenadier looks more masculine and tradesman/workman's vehicle.
Much more like an old Defender or a 70 series is viewed
Yes, and the jacket reflects this , not the Benz equivalent...
 

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rovie

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Not to hate on G wagens , which are hugely capable, but are now over the top townie cars.
But a couple of years ago at a Maybach launch party (lol, free champagne, sorry) I sat in a new G wagen and instantly gave me the impression that I was simultaneously a dick and a ponce . Which I don't think I am.
My son said now you need to start trafficking something.
The day I sat in a grenadier I felt people would still judge me , sometimes harshly - but differently.
It's interesting how image drives design and marketing.
I agree with you 110% (there are always tolerances).
I really like the old G models. The clientele today would have driven a silver or black 500 SEC in the past. In my eyes, the Mercedes brand has not been premium for a long time. Just like all the other companies in Swabia "In the land".
I look forward to being approached about the Grenadier. And that's what people will do. With the G, that's unlikely to happen.
 
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Jean Mercier

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And all these years I thought the old miners who founded the town of Nederland in Colorado just couldn't spell!
:ROFLMAO: and probably the founders were Dutch. No, Dutch are not Germans, Dutch are citizens of Nederland. Germans speak "Deutsch". English is a very strange language ;)

By the way, I speak Flemish (and French, both mother tongue, equal level). Flemish is the same as Dutch. I am not French, neither Dutch, I am Belgian. Got it, or too complicated (even for me it is)? :ROFLMAO:
 
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:ROFLMAO: and probably the founders were Dutch. No, Dutch are not Germans, Dutch are citizens of Nederland. Germans speak "Deutsch". English is a very strange language ;)

By the way, I speak Flemish (and French, both mother tongue, equal level). Flemish is the same as Dutch. I am not French, neither Dutch, I am Belgian. Got it, or too complicated (even for me it is)? :ROFLMAO:
Okay... so the people who live in Holland are the Dutch, but the country isn't actually Holland, it is The Netherlands, which is actually Nederland. I'm going back to bed 😁
 

DaveB

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Okay... so the people who live in Holland are the Dutch, but the country isn't actually Holland, it is The Netherlands, which is actually Nederland. I'm going back to bed 😁
I had a friend who was explaining at dinner one evening that they had a great visit to Holland and our Dutch friend asked if they enjoyed visiting Nederland and did they go anywhere other than Holland.
Friend said I have never been to Netherland.
Dutch friend tried to explain that Holland (North & South) were a bit like the States in Australia, such as New South Wales and Queensland.
Hard to do without a map
We have a large Dutch population in Australia, particularly Tasmania, and before becoming a country part of Australia was called New Holland
1671562007522.png1671562182518.png
 
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I had a friend who was explaining at dinner one evening that they had a great visit to Holland and our Dutch friend asked if they enjoyed visiting Nederland and did they go anywhere other than Holland.
Friend said I have never been to Netherland.
Dutch friend tried to explain that Holland (North & South) were a bit like the States in Australia, such as New South Wales and Queensland.
Hard to do without a map
We have a large Dutch population in Australia, particularly Tasmania, and before becoming a country part of Australia was called New Holland
View attachment 7798248View attachment 7798249
I refuse to contemplate the existence of a "New Holland" - not after folks decided to toss out the name for Nederland. Folks need to make up their minds 😁
 
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