Auxiliary Battery setup components

[Tom D]

This is the kind of thing I am thinking of…

Dakota Lithium DL+ 12V 135Ah Heated Dual Purpose LiFePO4 Battery

DL+ 12v 135Ah LiFePO4 Golf Cart & 1000CCA Automotive Battery. Marine & Automotive Compatibility. 135 Amp Hours of deep cycle Dakota Lithium performance.

dakotalithium.com

 

[anand]

This is the kind of thing I am thinking of…

Dakota Lithium DL+ 12V 135Ah Heated Dual Purpose LiFePO4 Battery

DL+ 12v 135Ah LiFePO4 Golf Cart & 1000CCA Automotive Battery. Marine & Automotive Compatibility. 135 Amp Hours of deep cycle Dakota Lithium performance.

dakotalithium.com

This is exactly the battery I used for my aux. battery set up...

While it can be charged from an alternator (really the voltage controller) intended to charge an EFB, it isn't really ideal, nor is it a true full charge ever. Additionally, Dakota says that on the Grenadier (and any vehicle with a >135A alternator output), you should use at least two batteries in parallel, as the battery is only capable of a continuous 1C charge (135A), while normal charging rates are ideally lower than that

 

[CRH]

Oh!

To duplicate the standard system you'll need:

• CTEK Smartpass 120S + bracket
• Another OEM battery (they are the same)
• The bracket to hold the aux. battery
• and a few battery cables to be made

Oh! Also the vent tube for the aux. battery (EFB batteries are supposed to be vented out of the passenger compartment)

Is that all, from looking at other setups I thought there was more wires than that. I thought I needed to wire up something to the Little fuse box in my pic
Would any battery of same spec do, INEOS quoted £351.92+VAT for just a replacement battery and as you mentioned, could a lithium version be wired in exactly the same.
Where will the vent tube go to?
Brackets shouldn't be too hard to get made if INEOS isn't forth coming.

 

[Tom D]

This is exactly the battery I used for my aux. battery set up...

While it can be charged from an alternator (really the voltage controller) intended to charge an EFB, it isn't really ideal, nor is it a true full charge ever. Additionally, Dakota says that on the Grenadier (and any vehicle with a >135A alternator output), you should use at least two batteries in parallel, as the battery is only capable of a continuous 1C charge (135A), while normal charging rates are ideally lower than that

Interesting. As these batteries are so small I could probably fit two 80Ah batteries instead…

 

[Tom D]

Is that all, from looking at other setups I thought there was more wires than that. I thought I needed to wire up something to the Little fuse box in my pic
Would any battery of same spec do, INEOS quoted £351.92+VAT for just a replacement battery and as you mentioned, could a lithium version be wired in exactly the same.
Where will the vent tube go to?
Brackets shouldn't be too hard to get made if INEOS isn't forth coming.

You wont need a vent tube if you go lithium..

 

[anand]

Is that all, from looking at other setups I thought there was more wires than that. I thought I needed to wire up something to the Little fuse box in my pic
Would any battery of same spec do, INEOS quoted £351.92+VAT for just a replacement battery and as you mentioned, could a lithium version be wired in exactly the same.
Where will the vent tube go to?
Brackets shouldn't be too hard to get made if INEOS isn't forth coming.

In the stock configuration, everything that draws power draws power from the starting/primary battery. The aux battery exists only to trickle charge back to the primary battery (it's a.... unique arrangement to say the least).

A wire goes from the Littlefuse box to the CTEK Smartpass (the "input" to the smartpass from the main battery).

I'm not sure where the aux battery vent tube goes, as I don't have the factory aux battery.

And yes, technically, any battery of the same spec (I believe the size is H9, and a EFB battery) will work in lieu of the Ineos branded model.

Switching to a lithium aux battery would require more components

 

[CRH]

Anyone who can add a few pics especially for where the wires go to and from, sounds like it should be a simple job

 

[Tom D]

Anyone who can add a few pics especially for where the wires go to and from, sounds like it should be a simple job

Judging by the reaction of people world wide to the INEOS setup I wouldn’t bother trying to re-create it. It’s not a good design. And it allows both batteries to be drained to the point that you can’t start the car.
As you like me have the option of designing your own system you’d be better off using a simple DCDC charger that will isolate the starter battery once the voltage drops below a certain point. You can then run your accessories off the aux battery and not need to worry about flattening the starter battery.

 

[ADVAW8S]

This is exactly the battery I used for my aux. battery set up...

While it can be charged from an alternator (really the voltage controller) intended to charge an EFB, it isn't really ideal, nor is it a true full charge ever. Additionally, Dakota says that on the Grenadier (and any vehicle with a >135A alternator output), you should use at least two batteries in parallel, as the battery is only capable of a continuous 1C charge (135A), while normal charging rates are ideally lower than that

So your saying buy 2, run parallel under the rear seat. Then in the truck bed, get 400 amh and run the dc to dc charger to it. My wife is not going like you.

 

[CRH]

Judging by the reaction of people world wide to the INEOS setup I wouldn’t bother trying to re-create it. It’s not a good design. And it allows both batteries to be drained to the point that you can’t start the car.
As you like me have the option of designing your own system you’d be better off using a simple DCDC charger that will isolate the starter battery once the voltage drops below a certain point. You can then run your accessories off the aux battery and not need to worry about flattening the starter battery.

Yes, that is what I would do but, I haven't a clue how!!
All the switches run off the main battery, I can copy and do things, put additional 12v & USB sockets in passenger footwell, fit stuff, boot shelf, door table and on old cars, brake pads, discs, wheel bearing, king pins, all following the old Haynes manuals but other than that, I'm useless

 

[Tom D]

Yes, that is what I would do but, I haven't a clue how!!
All the switches run off the main battery, I can copy and do things, put additional 12v & USB sockets in passenger footwell, fit stuff, boot shelf, door table and on old cars, brake pads, discs, wheel bearing, king pins, all following the old Haynes manuals but other than that, I'm useless

What accessories are you wanting to run?

 

[CRH]

What accessories are you wanting to run?

25ltr fridge, exterior lights for evenings, possibly a shower but that would be sometime off. The fridge must run so I can keep medication in at approx 5ºC during UK and possibly European summer's even if vehicle doesn't get used for a few days.

 

[Kruegerruda]

In the stock configuration, everything that draws power draws power from the starting/primary battery. The aux battery exists only to trickle charge back to the primary battery (it's a.... unique arrangement to say the least).

And the next problem: For whatever reason, the starter battery is only charged up to 75% capacity by the alternator. I fear that this will also be the case for a lithium battery. Software presetting?

 

[anand]

And the next problem: For whatever reason, the starter battery is only charged up to 75% capacity by the alternator. I fear that this will also be the case for a lithium battery. Software presetting?

This brings up a good point.... The charge curves and settings monitor state of charge of the starter battery (most vehicles do not). This would only play a role of you replaced the starting/main battery with a lithium, and specifically if it didn't have the same capacity as the original battery.

For what it's worth, my truck charges the starting battery well into the upper 90% range

 

[Tom D]

25ltr fridge, exterior lights for evenings, possibly a shower but that would be sometime off. The fridge must run so I can keep medication in at approx 5ºC during UK and possibly European summer's even if vehicle doesn't get used for a few days.

A 25 litre fridge will only need maybe 50Ah for 48 hours run time. Maybe. There’s a lot of variables. It would be pretty simple to fit a second lithium battery, some suppliers supply chargers with the batteries.. Something like this will do. https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/victron-orion-tr-smart-1212-18a-isolated-dc-dc-charger.html

Then make a feed for your fridge and any other outlets you might want..

 

[Tom D]

But as I said earlier, if a compatible lithium cranking battery can be found that is simply plug and play this is a much easier solution.
One brand I noticed has a 20% reserve feature meaning that at 20% power the battery will shut off power to the accessories to leave enough power to start the vehicle. This gives all the benefits of a second battery system without all the additional wiring. Some also have smartphone apps that allow things like that to be configured..

I suspect that Lithium starter batteries with smart features will all but replace the need for second batteries in most setups.

I’m still researching all this but I’m pretty sure that I’ll go down the lithium starter route.

I think the grenadier has a 100ish Ah battery. That gives you 40-50 useable Ah’s. A 120Ah lithium would give you double that and still be able to start the car…

 

[Roving.Grenadier]

This is exactly the battery I used for my aux. battery set up...

While it can be charged from an alternator (really the voltage controller) intended to charge an EFB, it isn't really ideal, nor is it a true full charge ever. Additionally, Dakota says that on the Grenadier (and any vehicle with a >135A alternator output), you should use at least two batteries in parallel, as the battery is only capable of a continuous 1C charge (135A), while normal charging rates are ideally lower than that

Coming into this late because I’m just now installing a second battery, but yea, LiFePo batteries need a specific charging profile of 14.6V, and alternators aren’t that type of source. If the vehicle isn’t already setup for lithium, then you need a third party component to charge a lithium battery, like a DCDC charger. I’m using a Redarc 1240D in my LR4 and you can figure the charger to charge lithium specifically. Also installed Redarc’s 1250D in my Grenadier to charge the second battery (AO Lithium 100AH LiFePo). Works amazing.

 

[Roving.Grenadier]

Is that all, from looking at other setups I thought there was more wires than that. I thought I needed to wire up something to the Little fuse box in my pic
Would any battery of same spec do, INEOS quoted £351.92+VAT for just a replacement battery and as you mentioned, could a lithium version be wired in exactly the same.
Where will the vent tube go to?
Brackets shouldn't be too hard to get made if INEOS isn't forth coming.

You can use any battery really, only the start battery needs to be EFB (because of the start/stop function in the vehicle).

 

[Roving.Grenadier]

In the stock configuration, everything that draws power draws power from the starting/primary battery. The aux battery exists only to trickle charge back to the primary battery (it's a.... unique arrangement to say the least).

A wire goes from the Littlefuse box to the CTEK Smartpass (the "input" to the smartpass from the main battery).

I'm not sure where the aux battery vent tube goes, as I don't have the factory aux battery.

And yes, technically, any battery of the same spec (I believe the size is H9, and a EFB battery) will work in lieu of the Ineos branded model.

Switching to a lithium aux battery would require more components

Actually…if you get the aux battery from the factory, all switching accessories come off the second battery, and the aux battery is able to basically trickle charge the primary down to 10V, then it shuts off is charging function if it can’t keep up with the drawdown.

There’s been misleading info since forever that the all accessories are powered by the primary in aux battery configuration. Not sure where the misleading info came from, but this was corrected by a highly trusted source within the Ineos organization. We can sidebar this if you want.

 

[Roving.Grenadier]

Judging by the reaction of people world wide to the INEOS setup I wouldn’t bother trying to re-create it. It’s not a good design. And it allows both batteries to be drained to the point that you can’t start the car.
As you like me have the option of designing your own system you’d be better off using a simple DCDC charger that will isolate the starter battery once the voltage drops below a certain point. You can then run your accessories off the aux battery and not need to worry about flattening the starter battery.

This is exact what I did yesterday. Going to add Powerpole outlets too, so much better than 12V sockets haha.