A few thoughts about Ineos Automotive and the Grenadier

[LabRat]

@Brock63 - Well said!!!

"Speed Bitching Betty" -

 

[Zimm]

I'm not sure everything else is jockeying for second. Think of the aesthetics.

The problem with the Gwagon in the UK is that the new ones generally looks like a Rapper's town car. Only one I have driven was a AMG or Brabus tweaked Gwagon with low profile tryres and bright red brake calipers - it was huge fun on a straight road with a smooth surface and very quick but slow on a long trip as you didn't dare pass a fuel station without topping up. The friend who owned it had bought it for his wife by way of atonement but she wouldn't drive it as she said it was a pig to park in the supermarket car park and her VW polo was a lot better car allround. Their kids christened it "Mum's Kardashianmobile" which I thought was a pretty fair two word summary.

The comment was sarcasm. The Gwagon frame and chassis are no better than the Ineos. You're paying for the luxury fitout, the badge, and the ridiculous profit margin MB has had on the G since the first MBUSA models replaced the Europa gray market units. When they saw what people were willing to pay for a military truck with C class interior components, the thing became nothing but tubs of icing on the bottom line, not the eighth wonder of the world.

 

[Brock63]

“Speed Bitching Betty” - I’ll remember that each time I hear it

yeah, from time in military....the warning system in A-10 guys would call Bitching Betty. LOL

 

[Brewns_Greenadier]

There's a hidden fact about owning a Grenny that hits me harder every day I spend on this forum...

The target market consists of passionate adventurers (or adventure vehicle fans) who are self-reliant and resourceful.

If a company’s market share and logistics strategy factor into your overall enjoyment—or even your anxiety—then a brand-new Land Cruiser (The Prada, for my fellow EU members) might be a better fit

I’m not saying Ineos doesn’t need to step up their game, or that we should just accept poor service and limited parts availability. What I’m saying is that you shouldn’t obsess over it, because you bought into something that was always going to have a very limited market presence. It’s designed for a narrow, specific customer base, and by nature it’s not scalable—whether that’s due to production volumes, regulatory constraints, or the environmental costs of going big.

Honestly, I just feel blessed—
blessed I can afford a new one,
blessed we can still buy something like this in 2025,
blessed they even shipped it to Canada,
and blessed to be self-reliant enough to run with a niche product and keep it alive mostly myself. Because with basic automotive industry knowledge, there's always a way to repair a Grenadier somewhere.

I wish the best for IG, but it's gonna stay small and it should. IMHO

 

[MileHigh]

I think it is more likely that Ineos would buy JLR than the other way around. If anything, BMW taking it over is most likely if anything happens.

As to going forward, I understand the issues with repairs and maintenance, but if that is what is keeping the doors open at the dealers- let’s not cut off our nose to spite our face…. Red Noland is a PHENOMENAL dealer. Thom runs a great ship. Off-road classes all the time to use the IG as intended. A BBQ coming up soon. My sales guy checks in with me every few months. Yes, a 90 mile each way is a PITA, but lets get this up and running before we cut the revenue stream off from maintenance.

 

[Dokatd]

Am I the only one who wouldn't be upset if Ineos went tits up? The value of our trucks would tank short term but then skyrocket at some point.

Eventually someone will break the Ineos software and repairs etc should get easier as the trucks are documented by enthusiasts. Mechanically they are already easy enough and most major components are common to other vehicles with the exception of a few items.

 

[LabRat]

Am I the only one who wouldn't be upset if Ineos went tits up? The value of our trucks would tank short term but then skyrocket at some point.

Eventually someone will break the Ineos software and repairs etc should get easier as the trucks are documented by enthusiasts. Mechanically they are already easy enough and most major components are common to other vehicles with the exception of a few items.

I didn't buy this as an investment, I bought it to use as designed, pass it on and buy another when the time comes.

 

[bigleonski]

Am I the only one who wouldn't be upset if Ineos went tits up?

Yes.

 

[Dokatd]

Brace yourselves then.

Unless they pivot hard it's coming. Either way I am happy enough.

 

[MileHigh]

We all knew it was a possibility. Not going to wish it. There are some things that could in anGen2. I don’t want a DeLorean.

 

[OkGo]

I don't want them to go bust, I just want them to make my car be what they said it was.

 

[Dokatd]

We all knew it was a possibility. Not going to wish it. There are some things that could in anGen2. I don’t want a DeLorean.

Certainly don't wish it, just not afraid to say it out loud and suggest it might positively affect vehicle value over time.

The Gren just doesn't tick a whole bunch of boxes a start up needs these days. If they were $200k trucks made in limited numbers then I could see them holding out. But they are going at this like it's a normal vehicle in the space with tons of other SUV's. I have a preorder for an electric Myers Manx. It's looking like it will be $130k plus once delivered. Thats for a small stupid electric dune buggy with no real roof. Enthusiast would have paid over $150k for a Gren without even flinching. Might have been the better target, low volume higher profit. Maybe for the money they would have delivered a Gren without even flinching few problems out of the box.

It's anyone's guess at this point, I won't be surprised or disappointed either way. I'm just being honest with myself.

 

[cyson]

Certainly don't wish it, just not afraid to say it out loud and suggest it might positively affect vehicle value over time.

The Gren just doesn't tick a whole bunch of boxes a start up needs these days. If they were $200k trucks made in limited numbers then I could see them holding out. But they are going at this like it's a normal vehicle in the space with tons of other SUV's. I have a preorder for an electric Myers Manx. It's looking like it will be $130k plus once delivered. Thats for a small stupid electric dune buggy with no real roof. Enthusiast would have paid over $150k for a Gren without even flinching. Might have been the better target, low volume higher profit. Maybe for the money they would have delivered a Gren without even flinching few problems out of the box.

It's anyone's guess at this point, I won't be surprised or disappointed either way. I'm just being honest with myself.

That's true, if they went a more hardcore and just charged more, that probably would have made more sense. Instead they made an attempt at mainstream in many ways which might not make too much sense with their scale.

I'm with you though, lots of challenges for the company as a whole. In the meantime, I enjoy the vehicle so it's all good.

 

[MileHigh]

Certainly don't wish it, just not afraid to say it out loud and suggest it might positively affect vehicle value over time.

Value might go up, but the cost of ownership might go way up as it becomes less common.

 

[CRH]

Value might go up, but the cost of ownership might go way up as it becomes less common.

Fishers haven't exactly jumped in value, I think you would have to be looking very long term and values would only rise after a considerable hit. Therefore you would need to purchase at the bottom of the curve if you think you want to make money. The chances of it going over what we paid in the next 20 years, and probably many more is extremely unlikely without even taking inflation into account on the initial value of your money.
Take it out, use it and abuse it like it's meant to be and enjoy, you will be long dead before there is any chance of the values being of interest.

That's my guess anyway, and I'm usually wrong so completely ignore the above

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I am praying to god bmw buys them as their strategic competition to the g wagon.

 

[CRH]

I am praying to god bmw buys them as their strategic competition to the g wagon.

As long as they work out, keep going and sort themselves out as a proper vehicle manufacturer for the long run, I don't mind who owns them.
Even if it was Ferrari, at least the parts and servicing costs might come down

 

[MileHigh]

I am praying to god bmw buys them as their strategic competition to the g wagon.

Jaguar is the only European manufacturer that’s more “cringey“ than BMW. They would jack up the Grenadier from one to the other. Try to put it on some other platform and destroy the brand.

On the other hand, we’d have better maintenance options.

Our only hope is that they would want to try to stick it too Mercedes about the G wagon. But even Mercedes seems to not want the G wagon.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Jaguar is the only European manufacturer that’s more “cringey“ than BMW. They would jack up the Grenadier from one to the other. Try to put it on some other platform and destroy the brand.

On the other hand, we’d have better maintenance options.

Our only hope is that they would want to try to stick it too Mercedes about the G wagon. But even Mercedes seems to not want the G wagon.

Jaguar vehicles have not been relevant for decades bmw is highly relevant.

The novelty of the obscure Ineos brand has worn off. We need the vehicle to be propped by a legit automotive operation

 

[OkGo]

All of these big guns have a small Chinese problem. Western automotives are largely dead in the water unless they get their own marquee sorted into a new world.

I suspect buying into a niche with declining sales and negative margins maybe low on the agenda, but that's just my view.

Let's think about what @CRH said - you buy a car to get from here to there. One the gets you there with a smile on your face, you pay a bit more for. IA just need to instill the confidence of being able to do that on demand, keeping you dry and comfortable with good reliability.