What is draining my battery in my IG or QM when parked?

[TheDocAUS]

DRAFT FOR FIRST FEW DAYS​

PART 1- THE POSSIBLE CAUSES
I am writing a checklist for owners to work through if your battery is going flat quickly. Understanding how the INEOS works is useful to work out if there is a problems or just the design.

All modern 4X4s make BIG power demands on the battery. The INEOS is close to what I experienced with the much older Nissan Patrol over 10 years. I had a dual battery setup in each. I fixed the power draw problem, by installing a solar panel on each car’s roof rack.

Things to look at:

1. If you have a dashcam installed, it is a BIG drain on the battery, even when the voltage is set to turn the camera off. The biggest source of people telling my battery dealer his batteries are faulty, are those with dashcams. It is not the battery, but the dashcam causing the problem. Car batteries are not built to power dashcams 24/7. A day and a half without driving is probably long enough to drain the battery, with a dashcam.
2. Start/Stop functionality reduces battery life and SOC, plus it reduces the life of your starter motor. Graphs on my battery monitor show start/stops are brutal on the main battery. The only time I have seen my car draw power from the second battery is when the Start/Stop function is working. I am not saying it does not happen in other contexts, just that I have only seen it happen during Start/Stop, while looking at the battery monitor graphs.
3. Lots of short trips damages the battery. The battery does not get a proper recharge and slowly loses capacity over time.
4. Smart alternators are not the best way to charge a battery, a DC to DC charger or modern mains charger do a better job. My aux battery is charged by the DC to DC charger and it is better charged than the main battery charged by the alternator. You can see this on the battery monitor graphs.
5. Smart alternators like that on the INEOS don't charge a battery to 100% SOC. The charging rate will fall when 85 to 90% SOC is reached. Only on exceptional long drives will your main battery approach 100%. On my car that can take 3-4 hours of driving. Most DC to DC chargers will charge the aux battery to 100% much quicker.
6. The Smart alternator must have enough spare capacity to be able to provide enough power to your DC to DC charger. Adding the CTEK 250SE to my dual battery setup has created no issues for my car.
7. A defective alternator will not charge the battery properly. A defective alternator may be under charging or overcharging the battery. The generally acceptable charging range is 14.2 to 14.7 volts (I am double checking that figure). While the car is on, check the voltage at the battery posts, using a mulitmeter. Compare that figure to what the Head Unit is showing on the Electrical Tab. Also test the alternator under load not just at idle (see linked video in next post).
8. Diesel engines make bigger power demands when cranking than petrol engines (so diesel models have shorter battery life). If you have a battery monitor fitted, just look at the power draw on startup.
9. Ambient air temperature affects battery performance. Very hot and very cold conditions adversely affect battery performance. For example, high humidity and high ambient temperatures can lead to early battery failure.
10. Batteries lose capacity over time, so they are quicker to discharge. It can be made worse when the battery does not get a full recharge regularly (e.g. lots of short trips).
11. If you have installed third party devices, check whether they are draining the battery, even parasitic drains quickly add up. The more third-party devices you install, the greater the demands on the battery. I have 3 devices drawing small currents from my batteries 24/7. That adds up.
12. Leaving doors or bonnet open when working on the car leaves lights and the computer on. It scary how fast the battery drains doing these things.
13. Shorts in the IG’s or QM’s electrical system can draw power, as well as shorts in your third-party accessories.
14. Helicopter mode (when parked) during a DPF burn off, is a HUGE drain on the main battery.
15. The Head Unit is not properly shutting down, another big drain on battery power.
16. A faulty battery, dealers normally have a battery tester to test the battery.
17. Turn off all your auxiliary power switches, as they may be powering devices while the car is turned off.
18. Look for any loose wires. That includes: the battery terminals; any negative or grounding wires or in the 5 stud or 7 Stud busbars.
19. Your battery dramas may be a combination of these issues, and may not even be a fault.

Please add your own points, I need to expand some points with specific IG or QM identified causes.

While at home my car has at least 8 of those points to deal with. The solar panel fixes most of them, but I have a roof rack.

I learnt years ago I needed to pro-actively manage the Patrol batteries. The same applies to the INEOS. Some suggestions on what to do in Part 2.

 

[TheDocAUS]

PART 2 - WHAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT

How to manage battery power drains

1. Install a cheap battery monitor and see what is really going on (yes it will be a parasitic drain on the battery). You can also use a multimeter. The SOC from the Head Unit is not that accurate. The graphs from cheap monitors can give insight into when and why the battery(s) is being discharged. They can help identify the underlying problem.
2. If you are going away for a time, maybe place the car into TRANSPORT MODE (see Rok Dr Guide section 3.10.3).
3. Use a mains battery charger while away. Or use a mains charger every week or so to ensure a good charge to the battery (e.g. if you do lots of short trips). My nephew has this issue with his Nissan Patrol and his dashcam.
4. Install a solar panel on your roof rack. This might not be effective in places with too many cloudy days. It does work in Australia.
5. If you are working on your car for a few hours, put it on a mains charger.
6. Find the cause of the short or power drain and deal with it. For example, my dashcam runs off a Celllink Neo battery that only charges while the car is turned on, or I turn on the overhead PWR switch while the car is parked. The dashcam cannot drain the main battery, unless I leave the PWR switch on.
7. Periodically inspect wiring and earths. Focus on three areas 1) the primary wiring loom in the engine bay (checking heat shielding, clips, mounts, etc.); 2) crankshaft etc. sensor wires visible when under the vehicle (you’ll see they are reasonably exposed if there is no underbody protection installed); and 3) beneath the rear seat (where most of the action happens in terms of our accessory installations).
8. WARNING: If you are going to disconnect any battery, first allow the car to go into SLEEP MODE (see Rok Dr Guide section 13.2).

TESTING THE ALTERNATOR

View: https://youtu.be/LGB6ZEjGm7Q

HOW TO USE A MULTIMETER ON YOUR CAR (BASIC)

View: https://youtu.be/hVhP_FKn_5M

More information here.

 

[Barrett1]

Correct me if I am mistaken but it seems leaving the doors open do not drain the power. It is the act of either opening a door or closing the door if it has been in the opposite state that fires back up the center console computer and I would think drains the battery. I cannot comment on the bonnet as I usually get what I need done then slam it closed.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Correct me if I am mistaken but it seems leaving the doors open do not drain the power. It is the act of either opening a door or closing the door if it has been in the opposite state that fires back up the center console computer and I would think drains the battery. I cannot comment on the bonnet as I usually get what I need done then slam it closed.

The doors can trigger the puddle lights, but the main drain would be turning on the head unit when the doors are opened. I do not need to work on the car for very long for a big drop in the battery SOC.

 

[Eric]

DRAFT FOR FIRST FEW DAYS​

PART 1- THE POSSIBLE CAUSES
I am writing a checklist for owners to work through if your battery is going flat quickly. Please add your tips.

All modern 4X4s make BIG power demands on the battery. The INEOS is close to what I experienced with the much older Nissan Patrol over 10 years. I had a dual battery setup in each. I fixed the power draw problem, by installing a solar panel on each car’s roof rack.

Things to look at:

1. If you have a dashcam installed, it is a BIG drain on the battery, even when the voltage is set to turn the camera off. The biggest source of people telling my battery dealer his batteries are faulty, are those with dashcams. It is not the battery, but the dashcam causing the problem. Car batteries are not built to power dashcams 24/7. A day and a half without driving is probably long enough to drain the battery, with a dashcam.
2. Start/Stop functionality reduces battery life and SOC, plus it reduces the life of your starter motor. Graphs on my battery monitor show start/stop are brutal on the main battery. The only time I have seen my car draw power from the second battery is when the Start/Stop function is working. I am not saying it does not happen in other contexts, just that I have only seen it happen during Start/Stop, while looking at the battery monitor graphs.
3. Lots of short trips damages the battery. The battery does not get a proper recharge and slowly loses capacity over time.
4. Alternators are not the best way to charge a battery, a DC to DC charger or modern mains charger do a better job. My aux battery is charged by the DC to DC charger and it is better charged than the main battery charged by the alternator. You can see this on the battery monitor graphs.
5. Diesel engines make bigger power demands when cranking than petrol engines (so diesel models have shorter battery life). If you have a battery monitor fitted, just look at the power draw on startup.
6. Ambient air temperature affects battery performance. Very hot and very cold conditions adversely affect battery performance. For example, high humidity and high ambient temperatures can lead to early battery failure.
7. Batteries lose capacity over time, so they are quicker to discharge. It can be made worse when the battery does not get a full recharge regularly (e.g. lots of short trips).
8. If you have installed third party devices, check whether they are draining the battery, even parasitic drains quickly add up. The more third-party devices you install, the greater the demands on the battery.
9. Leaving doors or bonnet open when working on the car leaves lights and the computer on. It scary how fast the battery drains doing these things.
10. Shorts in the IG’s or QM’s electrical system can draw power, as well as shorts in your third-party accessories.
11. Helicopter mode (when parked) during a DPF burn off, is a HUGE drain on the battery.
12. The Head Unit is not properly shutting down.

Please add your own points, I need to expand some points with specific IG or QM identified causes.

While at home my car has at least 8 of those points to deal with. The solar panel fixes most of them, but I have a roof rack.

I learnt years ago I needed to pro-actively manage the Patrol batteries. The same applies to the INEOS. Some suggestions on what to do in Part 2.

You can add that today's modern smart alternators don't charge a battery to 100% charge and charging rate will fall dramatically when 85 to 90% SOC is reached. Only on a exceptional long drive will your battery approach 100%.

 

[TheDocAUS]

You can add that today's modern smart alternators don't charge a battery to 100% charge and charging rate will fall dramatically when 85 to 90% SOC is reached. Only on a exceptional long drive will your battery approach 100%.

I will do that, thanks.

 

[Logsplitter]

If any auxiliary power points still have anything plugged into them and the overhead power switch is still on then this may contribute to power draw when engine is off

 

[landmannnn]

A couple of points/comments to add.

Might it be worth dividing your list into short term and long term? For example leaving the doors open is short term, stop start being long term degradation.

Waking/sleeping. If you wake the vehicle by turning the key or opening a door the systems take 5 to 10 minutes to shut down. Current draws are up to 10A during this period. This will take a couple of points from your SOC each time.

 

[TheDocAUS]

A couple of points/comments to add.

Might it be worth dividing your list into short term and long term? For example leaving the doors open is short term, stop start being long term degradation.

Waking/sleeping. If you wake the vehicle by turning the key or opening a door the systems take 5 to 10 minutes to shut down. Current draws are up to 10A during this period. This will take a couple of points from your SOC each time.

I will consider that as the list grows. Thanks.

 

[TheDocAUS]

If any auxiliary power points still have anything plugged into them and the overhead power switch is still on then this may contribute to power draw when engine is off

I will add that. Thanks.

 

[globalgregors]

You can add that today's modern smart alternators don't charge a battery to 100% charge and charging rate will fall dramatically when 85 to 90% SOC is reached. Only on a exceptional long drive will your battery approach 100%.

The Smart Alternator is maintaining this SoC to reduce emissions. I understand it periodically runs the battery up to 100% but I haven’t been able to discern the pattern. Concur that It’s not long drives per se, long drive relative to average trip distance for the vehicle in question.

 

[globalgregors]

Install a cheap battery monitor

Or alternatively use a multimeter to check the voltage at the battery post… won’t produce time series data obviously but gives a more trustworthy (ie consistent) point reading than the centre info display. This recommended by an Ineos tech.

We have a Noco Genius 10 Amp smart battery charger hard-wired through the D250SE/Smartpass 120S combination and plug in when parked up for a few days at a time. It serves both batteries in this configuration.

Only other suggestion, this maybe more applicable for expeditions, is to periodically inspect wiring and earths. I focus on three areas - the primary wiring loom in the engine bay (checking heat shielding, clips, mounts); crankshaft etc sensor wires visible when under the vehicle (you’ll see they are reasonably exposed if no underbody protection is installed); and beneath the rear seat (where most of the action happens in terms of our accessory installations).

 

[TheDocAUS]

Or alternatively use a multimeter to check the voltage at the battery post… won’t produce time series data obviously but gives a more trustworthy (ie consistent) point reading than the centre info display. This recommended by an Ineos tech.

We have a Noco Genius 10 Amp smart battery charger hard-wired through the D250SE/Smartpass 120S combination and plug in when parked up for a few days at a time. It serves both batteries in this configuration.

Only other suggestion, this maybe more applicable for expeditions, is to periodically inspect wiring and earths. I focus on three areas - the primary wiring loom in the engine bay (checking heat shielding, clips, mounts); crankshaft etc sensor wires visible when under the vehicle (you’ll see they are reasonably exposed if no underbody protection is installed); and beneath the rear seat (where most of the action happens in terms of our accessory installations).

The multi meter would also help to confirm the alternator is charging the battery correctly.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I will be returning to my QM tomorrow afternoon. I have been away for 10 days. When I parked it, it was at 97%, I will post what it is when I get in. I have no second battery, no attachments to my overhead panels yet. No dash camera. I will let you know.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Or alternatively use a multimeter to check the voltage at the battery post… won’t produce time series data obviously but gives a more trustworthy (ie consistent) point reading than the centre info display. This recommended by an Ineos tech.

We have a Noco Genius 10 Amp smart battery charger hard-wired through the D250SE/Smartpass 120S combination and plug in when parked up for a few days at a time. It serves both batteries in this configuration.

Only other suggestion, this maybe more applicable for expeditions, is to periodically inspect wiring and earths. I focus on three areas - the primary wiring loom in the engine bay (checking heat shielding, clips, mounts); crankshaft etc sensor wires visible when under the vehicle (you’ll see they are reasonably exposed if no underbody protection is installed); and beneath the rear seat (where most of the action happens in terms of our accessory installations).

I pretty much just cut and pasted that into the posts. Thanks.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Only other suggestion, this maybe more applicable for expeditions, is to periodically inspect wiring and earths. I focus on three areas - the primary wiring loom in the engine bay (checking heat shielding, clips, mounts); crankshaft etc sensor wires visible when under the vehicle (you’ll see they are reasonably exposed if no underbody protection is installed); and beneath the rear seat (where most of the action happens in terms of our accessory installations).

Do you have a picture of those 3 locations? I was thinking it would be easier if a picture was posted for each area.

 

[Barrett1]

On this same subject, I use a Noko smart charger on the positive lead in the engine bay, ground attached to the large engine lift post. I drop the cables out the bottom so I can shut the hood and eliminate any potential draw. I have the dual battery factory setup. Can anyone with the knowledge definitively confirm or deny that I charge the second battery if I leave this in place for awhile?

 

[TheDocAUS]

On this same subject, I use a Noko smart charger on the positive lead in the engine bay, ground attached to the large engine lift post. I drop the cables out the bottom so I can shut the hood and eliminate any potential draw. I have the dual battery factory setup. Can anyone with the knowledge definitively confirm or deny that I charge the second battery if I leave this in place for awhile?

@globalgregors has a similar setup, but wired through the mated CTEK units. That setup charges both batteries, like my solar setup.

Not sure about your setup as I want the DC to DC charger to charge the aux battery. Other owners have something similar to you and they could tell you.