What an I missing... or is Ineos missing something???

[Sean326]

So I think i'm like a lot of folks on this forum where i have some history/experience with old defenders, some nostalgia for them.
I stalked and studied Ineos as the grenadier was talked about and later brought into production.
I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger.
I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.
After several months I kinda like it, I like the overall design and stature and its uniqueness. love the seats.
Wonderful idea, incredibly poor execution.
What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.
The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.
The next worse thing i have is the Jeep at about 375 range, my Ram gets just over 500. Most days I drive the gren is a fill it up day.
Or how about the ADAS, how much engineering did it take to create the most annoying and intrusive system on the market that offers absolutely no driver assistance.
They had no hesitation to buy other car company components... why not buy toyotas adas? my mid level Tacoma and wifes lexus both have one with no beeps and clicks yet it practically drives the car for you.
And overall besides being among my newest vehicles it's a dealer garage queen, I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.
My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.
With all that it's hardly a kit or bargain fixer upper, Mine was $90,000. Except for my S-Class Mercedes the most expensive car in my garage.

After all that i found myself talking to the sales guy while at the dealer for yet another warranty repair about when the order books were open for the '26 models.
And if they've gotten their quality control and driver experience act any more together in '26 than they had in '24.

I am probably going to trade in my '24 trialmaster, I just don't think its a sustainable long term vehicle. I'm on the fence whether i get a new (hopefully) improved '26 grenadier or a '26 Bronco raptor with all the boxes checked.

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

 

[GrenADV]

That all sounds right.

It's a new car and a new car company. Your expectations are either managed/tempered to account for all of this, or they are not. From what I read, your expectations are a bit more than what the grenadier provides currently. For people like me, who can't afford a garage of 12 cars (or a garage that fits 12 cars for that matter), I look at the grenadier as the only vehicle that gets me as close to a classic defender, range rover classic, or G464 as possible, without the fact that it is 30+ years old. So, for me, to own this modern take on a classic 4x4 is a privilege.

It's been said over and over again on this forum, YouTube reviews, and lots of other places that the grenadier is a niche vehicle for a niche group of enthusiasts. All of the vehicles you mention have either been in production for many years, or built by companies that have refined their engineering and manufacturing processes over decades. For perspective, Ineos Auto has been around for less than 10 years. We can all sit here as arm chair experts and criticize the decisions that were made or not by Ineos, but I would have to think there was a good reason for whichever way the decision was made - with either time or money as the driving factor.

 

[Commodore]

I have had mine since September and now have 14,000 miles on it. The software update fixes most of the ADAS issues. I intentionally ordered mine with safari roofs because I’m sick and tired of leaking sunroofs. Every car I have ever owned with a sunroof eventually leaks. At the moment that includes a F150 King Ranch and a Cayenne GTS both of which leak.

The turning radius can be improved if by adjusting the stops if it is bothering you that much.

The only issue that I have had is the driveshaft was replaced at 12,000 because of a failing front CV joint. In fact, this is the only real issue with the design. They pinon angle is utter shit causing real issues with the CV’s. The high angle is causing constant flexing of the rubber boot which causes heat and destroys the boot leading to it dumping grease and eventually failing. I predict that these becomes a recall and an entirely different driveshaft gets designed or even better at replacement front axle with an appropriate pinon angle.

Otherwise it’s a damn great truck. My favorite car I have ever owned.

 

[Krabby]

I’ll just add two quick things as I’m in a hurry - there is a software update to eliminate the ADAS (set it and forget it). But, I do believe that in 2026 the feds make ADAS a requirement which means you probably won’t be able to disable it. Not 100% on that but you should look into it.

 

[TimeosYoc]

I am scheduled to get the software update next week. While it's not a big deal to turn off, I will be happy to no longer turn off the nanny speed beep every time I start the car. I've not had any issues with my Fieldmaster, but I've only 3,500 miles on it so far.

 

[landmannnn]

Based on what you said in another thread, it sounds like you are not happy with your purchase.

My '24 Trialmaster will not last that long, it's not that well built and its been in the shop more this first year for real problems than my 16 year old AEV wrangler or my 8 year old Diesel Ram (both over 100k) have in their entire lives. I love the idea of the grenadier but the execution is a joke.

 

[Bayford]

So I think i'm like a lot of folks on this forum where i have some history/experience with old defenders, some nostalgia for them.
I stalked and studied Ineos as the grenadier was talked about and later brought into production.
I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger.
I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.
After several months I kinda like it, I like the overall design and stature and its uniqueness. love the seats.
Wonderful idea, incredibly poor execution.
What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.
The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.
The next worse thing i have is the Jeep at about 375 range, my Ram gets just over 500. Most days I drive the gren is a fill it up day.
Or how about the ADAS, how much engineering did it take to create the most annoying and intrusive system on the market that offers absolutely no driver assistance.
They had no hesitation to buy other car company components... why not buy toyotas adas? my mid level Tacoma and wifes lexus both have one with no beeps and clicks yet it practically drives the car for you.
And overall besides being among my newest vehicles it's a dealer garage queen, I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.
My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.
With all that it's hardly a kit or bargain fixer upper, Mine was $90,000. Except for my S-Class Mercedes the most expensive car in my garage.

After all that i found myself talking to the sales guy while at the dealer for yet another warranty repair about when the order books were open for the '26 models.
And if they've gotten their quality control and driver experience act any more together in '26 than they had in '24.

I am probably going to trade in my '24 trialmaster, I just don't think its a sustainable long term vehicle. I'm on the fence whether i get a new (hopefully) improved '26 grenadier or a '26 Bronco raptor with all the boxes checked.

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

There's not much that you say there Sean with which I would disagree. I don't have a dozen cars in my garage but probably not far off that. All of them are better at something than the Grenadier, faster, prettier, better off road, longer range between fill ups, more clever software or whatever' but they also all have their own weak points.

I find myself driving the Grenadier 95% of the time because its probably the best all rounder that I have and I rather like climbing in a car and knowing that its got all of my bits and bobs in it that were there yesterday. You climb in a vehicle that you haven't driven for 6 months and there's always something missing - bottle of water, a lighter, a phone charger, a raincoat, spare boots or whatever. That is laways irritating.

Like you I probably find the 350 mile range on a full tank (diesel) the most frustrating feature of the car. That said it's about twice the range of a 4 litre petrol Jeep that I used to own and definitely twice the range of a 1985 V8 Vantage that I sold this year after more than 30 years of never really driving it. I have another car with an 800 mile plus range on a single tank but it has a whole host of other downsides as a daily driver.

Overall I think for those of us who tend to stick with one car most of the time the Grenadier is a pretty good all rounder and after a couple of years I have found that the quirks that used to irritate me on the Grenadier now make me smile - but then I don't have ASDAS. I hope you keep your car because they do grow on you over time

 

[Tom109]

I have a ‘65 exMoD LR 109. I absolutely love it. It’s basic, I can turn on/off whichever lights I want, hauls a lot of stuff, Kodiak heater is awesome, but no AC, front seats are 6-inches above 10-gallons of fuel (driver & passenger) and yeah, turning radius. Have also owned D1’s and still own a ‘95 Classic. I had a CJ5 in high school, would never buy a modern jeep, or any American vehicle for that matter. Just so you see where I’m coming from.

The Gren is a modern take on the older Rovers. It does everything they can, arguably better and with a wider feature set. I do love it! It’s not perfect but no complaints as the quirks don’t really bother me (I didn’t buy the plastic gutter pipe or the 1970-tech sunroof design either, that’s on you if you did). Anything more serious will get worked out with the dealer under warranty.

 

[DoubleDoom]

I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.

I have a later Vin and that is just under 23000 and that was built July 2024.
There has been the MY22, MY23, MY23.5, MY24 and current MY25. There have been some sub versions in between. The car is very much 1st generation though. Not 5th.

What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.

I find the turning circle one of the least issues going. Perhaps it's because I am used to Land Rovers and other permanent 4WD vehicles.

The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.

250 miles? How are you driving it? My last four fill-ups are: 273, 304, 327, 308. That is petrol engine and includes some 3.5t towing in there. That 327 mile run filled up 80.3 litres. So, still had almost 10 litres left.

My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.

The IG should be more capable as an overlander vehicle (which is what it is) but less capable as a rock crawler. How are you using it?
I find it very comfortable for a 4X4.

 

[m16magni]

So I think i'm like a lot of folks on this forum where i have some history/experience with old defenders, some nostalgia for them.
I stalked and studied Ineos as the grenadier was talked about and later brought into production.
I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger.
I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.
After several months I kinda like it, I like the overall design and stature and its uniqueness. love the seats.
Wonderful idea, incredibly poor execution.
What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.
The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.
The next worse thing i have is the Jeep at about 375 range, my Ram gets just over 500. Most days I drive the gren is a fill it up day.
Or how about the ADAS, how much engineering did it take to create the most annoying and intrusive system on the market that offers absolutely no driver assistance.
They had no hesitation to buy other car company components... why not buy toyotas adas? my mid level Tacoma and wifes lexus both have one with no beeps and clicks yet it practically drives the car for you.
And overall besides being among my newest vehicles it's a dealer garage queen, I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.
My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.
With all that it's hardly a kit or bargain fixer upper, Mine was $90,000. Except for my S-Class Mercedes the most expensive car in my garage.

After all that i found myself talking to the sales guy while at the dealer for yet another warranty repair about when the order books were open for the '26 models.
And if they've gotten their quality control and driver experience act any more together in '26 than they had in '24.

I am probably going to trade in my '24 trialmaster, I just don't think its a sustainable long term vehicle. I'm on the fence whether i get a new (hopefully) improved '26 grenadier or a '26 Bronco raptor with all the boxes checked.

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

If you are coming from a history/experience of old defenders, then the Grenadier's turning circle shouldn't disappoint!

My 2003 TD5 Defender had a turning circle (diameter) of 13.41m, my 2009 2.4L Puma had a turning circle (diameter) of 13.08m and my current 2.2L Puma has a turning circle of 14.4m all with 235/85 R16 tyres.
My MY24 Diesel Grenadier has a turning circle of 13.5m, so definitely on par with old defenders.

Admittedly the Grenadier is wider and heavier than the defenders but it does have a rear camera and parking sensors so I tend to park rear first in carparks now.
Apart from the rear parking sensors, in Australia I could buy without any ADAS.

The Defender is good off road but struggles towing with its 90kW engine. On the other hand, the Grenadier is not only impressive off road but tows like a dream, a massive improvement on the old defender.

However, I would agree that parking the Grenadier in shopping centres and underground car parks is a stressful challenge but more because of its size(width) and poor rear visibility, rather than its turning circle.

 

[pmatusov]

I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.

What was the warranty work for?

 

[pmatusov]

If you are coming from a history/experience of old defenders, then the Grenadier's turning circle shouldn't disappoint!

Not just this.
Out of curiosity, I pulled some numbers.
Range Rover Classic SWB - 11.3 m (I personally know how nimble that is in traffic.)
Range Rover Classic LWB - 13.64m (that already doesn't fit in my neighborhood street)
L322 Range Rover - 11.6 m
L405 Range Rover (SWB) - 12.3 m
L469 Range Rover - 11.5 m
Jeep JL Unlimited - 12.44 m

The number published for the Gren is 13.5 m - although since I alternate it with an RRC LWB as a daily driver, I know that RRC turns just a hair sharper. Maybe that's because I or its previous owner tweaked the stop screws in the axle housing.
So the "annoyance" factor is not as much with the vehicle but with the street width. Parking a Gren in a tight lot is compounded by its girth, but also not a big deal. A Volvo 240 it is not.

 

[Sean326]

What was the warranty work for?

1, A Leaks in the rain,
2, HVAC,
3, Parking sensor constantly going off with nothing around
4, Noisy power steering pump
5, bad pull on the steering
6, 5 hour software update to fix 3 issues something with the fuel tank, read traffic signs better and ability to permanently turn off speed chirp

 

[Sean326]

I have a later Vin and that is just under 23000 and that was built July 2024.
There has been the MY22, MY23, MY23.5, MY24 and current MY25. There have been some sub versions in between. The car is very much 1st generation though. Not 5th.

Yeh, the 5th generation was the comment from the dealer, i'm not sure what the improvement threshold is to trip a generational designation.

I find the turning circle one of the least issues going. Perhaps it's because I am used to Land Rovers and other permanent 4WD vehicles.

250 miles? How are you driving it? My last four fill-ups are: 273, 304, 327, 308. That is petrol engine and includes some 3.5t towing in there. That 327 mile run filled up 80.3 litres. So, still had almost 10 litres left.

The range goes up to 250 on the dash, I've never measured the gas and done the milage calculation myself, but in my daily driving it absolutely has the fastest moving fuel gauge of any vehicle i've driven.

The IG should be more capable as an overlander vehicle (which is what it is) but less capable as a rock crawler. How are you using it?

I find it very comfortable for a 4X4.

I'm a builder with a lot of wilderness projects, a hunter and large landowner, I'm driving the gren the same places i've been driving my jeep for years and lots of trails i can get the jeep into but not the gren. Some issues are just size but also some are tight turns and maneuvering.

 

[Sean326]

Not just this.
Out of curiosity, I pulled some numbers.
Range Rover Classic SWB - 11.3 m (I personally know how nimble that is in traffic.)
Range Rover Classic LWB - 13.64m (that already doesn't fit in my neighborhood street)
L322 Range Rover - 11.6 m
L405 Range Rover (SWB) - 12.3 m
L469 Range Rover - 11.5 m
Jeep JL Unlimited - 12.44 m

The number published for the Gren is 13.5 m - although since I alternate it with an RRC LWB as a daily driver, I know that RRC turns just a hair sharper. Maybe that's because I or its previous owner tweaked the stop screws in the axle housing.
So the "annoyance" factor is not as much with the vehicle but with the street width. Parking a Gren in a tight lot is compounded by its girth, but also not a big deal. A Volvo 240 it is not.

Yes i've driven old defenders, but I guess i expected a little better performance with a re-imagined one designed by the same company that deigned the g-wagon and priced at over $90K

 

[Sean326]

If you are coming from a history/experience of old defenders, then the Grenadier's turning circle shouldn't disappoint!

My 2003 TD5 Defender had a turning circle (diameter) of 13.41m, my 2009 2.4L Puma had a turning circle (diameter) of 13.08m and my current 2.2L Puma has a turning circle of 14.4m all with 235/85 R16 tyres.
My MY24 Diesel Grenadier has a turning circle of 13.5m, so definitely on par with old defenders.

Admittedly the Grenadier is wider and heavier than the defenders but it does have a rear camera and parking sensors so I tend to park rear first in carparks now.
Apart from the rear parking sensors, in Australia I could buy without any ADAS.

The Defender is good off road but struggles towing with its 90kW engine. On the other hand, the Grenadier is not only impressive off road but tows like a dream, a massive improvement on the old defender.

However, I would agree that parking the Grenadier in shopping centres and underground car parks is a stressful challenge but more because of its size(width) and poor rear visibility, rather than its turning circle.

Yes i've driven old defenders, but I guess i expected a little better performance with a re-imagined one designed by the same company that deigned the g-wagon and priced at over $90K

 

[Sean326]

I have a ‘65 exMoD LR 109. I absolutely love it. It’s basic, I can turn on/off whichever lights I want, hauls a lot of stuff, Kodiak heater is awesome, but no AC, front seats are 6-inches above 10-gallons of fuel (driver & passenger) and yeah, turning radius. Have also owned D1’s and still own a ‘95 Classic. I had a CJ5 in high school, would never buy a modern jeep, or any American vehicle for that matter. Just so you see where I’m coming from.

The Gren is a modern take on the older Rovers. It does everything they can, arguably better and with a wider feature set. I do love it! It’s not perfect but no complaints as the quirks don’t really bother me (I didn’t buy the plastic gutter pipe or the 1970-tech sunroof design either, that’s on you if you did). Anything more serious will get worked out with the dealer under warranty.

Sunroof isn't leaking its the passenger side footwell, from what other owners have said they fixed the leaks in the safari windows pretty well by '24.
I still have my jeep of 13 years, I can get the jeep into places the Gren won't go, partially dimensional but also handling and nimbleness.
The Gren has been in the shop more in 3 months than the jeep was in probably its first 10 years.
I guess i expected a little better performance and finesse with a re-imagined one designed by the same company that designed the g-wagon and priced at over $90K

 

[Sean326]

There's not much that you say there Sean with which I would disagree. I don't have a dozen cars in my garage but probably not far off that. All of them are better at something than the Grenadier, faster, prettier, better off road, longer range between fill ups, more clever software or whatever' but they also all have their own weak points.

I find myself driving the Grenadier 95% of the time because its probably the best all rounder that I have and I rather like climbing in a car and knowing that its got all of my bits and bobs in it that were there yesterday. You climb in a vehicle that you haven't driven for 6 months and there's always something missing - bottle of water, a lighter, a phone charger, a raincoat, spare boots or whatever. That is laways irritating.

Like you I probably find the 350 mile range on a full tank (diesel) the most frustrating feature of the car. That said it's about twice the range of a 4 litre petrol Jeep that I used to own and definitely twice the range of a 1985 V8 Vantage that I sold this year after more than 30 years of never really driving it. I have another car with an 800 mile plus range on a single tank but it has a whole host of other downsides as a daily driver.

Overall I think for those of us who tend to stick with one car most of the time the Grenadier is a pretty good all rounder and after a couple of years I have found that the quirks that used to irritate me on the Grenadier now make me smile - but then I don't have ASDAS. I hope you keep your car because they do grow on you over time

I agree with what you said, lots of common sense and wisdom there, and yes I tend to keep my cars as well worts and all.

 

[pmatusov]

Yes i've driven old defenders, but I guess i expected a little better performance with a re-imagined one designed by the same company that deigned the g-wagon and priced at over $90K

Have you driven a solid-front-axle G-wagen on the street? Besides raw acceleration and sound, it is an abomination.

 

[Shopkeep]

So I think i'm like a lot of folks on this forum where i have some history/experience with old defenders, some nostalgia for them.
I stalked and studied Ineos as the grenadier was talked about and later brought into production.
I bided my time till they got a couple model years production under their belts and then i pulled the trigger.
I bought a '24 Trialmaster a few months ago, I'm told by the dealer that my number 20,414 is the 3rd model year but the 5th generation.
After several months I kinda like it, I like the overall design and stature and its uniqueness. love the seats.
Wonderful idea, incredibly poor execution.
What do I hate... the turning radius is probably the worse.. ok that or the fact that it leaks in the rain.
Literally it turns worse than any vehicle in my pretty full 12 car garage.. its bad enough that it hurts it as an off road vehicle... nature has very few straight lines and this SUV likes straight lines.
The range... 250 miles!, just about 1/2 of most of my other vehicles, I get that in england and maybe europe but USA, canada.. australia.
The next worse thing i have is the Jeep at about 375 range, my Ram gets just over 500. Most days I drive the gren is a fill it up day.
Or how about the ADAS, how much engineering did it take to create the most annoying and intrusive system on the market that offers absolutely no driver assistance.
They had no hesitation to buy other car company components... why not buy toyotas adas? my mid level Tacoma and wifes lexus both have one with no beeps and clicks yet it practically drives the car for you.
And overall besides being among my newest vehicles it's a dealer garage queen, I think in the 3+ months I've had it's been in for tweaks and warranty work 5 times.
My 16 year old wrangler with 150k miles is more nimble and capable off road, my wife says my Ram diesel with 3 times the towing capacity is a more comfortable ride.
With all that it's hardly a kit or bargain fixer upper, Mine was $90,000. Except for my S-Class Mercedes the most expensive car in my garage.

After all that i found myself talking to the sales guy while at the dealer for yet another warranty repair about when the order books were open for the '26 models.
And if they've gotten their quality control and driver experience act any more together in '26 than they had in '24.

I am probably going to trade in my '24 trialmaster, I just don't think its a sustainable long term vehicle. I'm on the fence whether i get a new (hopefully) improved '26 grenadier or a '26 Bronco raptor with all the boxes checked.

Thoughts.. did I miss something?

Don’t over think it, if it does not make you smile when you climb in get rid of it. I keep my vehicles as long as they make me smile, the day I get in and it’s not bringing me joy it’s time to move on. After eighteen months plus I still love driving my Grenadier every single time.