Americas Went to pick up my Grenadier...

[DaBull]

I've noticed this in my vehicle too...some vibration coming through the gas pedal as well. Take your foot off the gas and it goes away but as soon as you push the accelerator the vibration and resonance is back. Above 70 it's pretty much gone

Hi rt10516, To my way of thinking, Ineos should investigate what is causing this vibration and resonance at certain speeds and rpm. It is being reported enough by forum members to be an issue to many that needs to be further investigated and resolved by Ineos.

It should not be that difficult for Ineos along with BMW and Magna Steyr to pinpoint the cause of this and come up with a solution. A straight 6 is the most balanced engine design in the world, so they have a damm good starting point to start from and get to the the bottom of it.

The expectations in the US market I believe are higher than in many parts of the world as most of us were never exposed to an original Defender, which from everything I have read is a substantial compromise in ride quality and vibration. Coming from an original Defender or even a Jeep, a Grenadier is indeed a refined vehicle, however coming from some of the nice SUV like trucks, SUV's or a New Defender, the Grenadier is not as refined in ride quality as we are all aware and not expecting. We were however not expecting excess vibration and resonance as part of the driving experience. Yes, We in the US are winers and Yes I love Pinot too.

Early on in this forum I posted about excess vibration in one of the Range Rover Sports I owned. Feeling that vibration through the steering wheel quickly went from mild irritation to making it not enjoyable to drive at all. I tracked down the cause, (which I found on the Land Rover Forum), and had my dealer fix it. In this case, Range Rover had decided they no longer needed to install a donut shaped rubber vibration damper and left it off. The dealer thought I was a bit nuts and could not imagine that I knew what I was talking about, however after insisting they install it, they did and it 100% cured the vibration that I was feeling up through the vehicle and steering wheel. What an incredible pure rush of joy driving my vehicle back home from the dealer and for as long as I owned it. It completely transformed the driving experience. If you or INEOS, (are you listening), is interested in reading about this early post and the link to the simple cure, I have posted 2 links to it at the bottom of this post.

I am not saying something as simple as this would cure the vibration and it would likely not fix a resonance, as they may not be related, however perhaps Ineos should start here and investigate installing a simple vibration damper as if that would offset the vibration, it would be a super simple and low cost solution. If not, they need to chase these excess vibrations down and the resonance issue too and come up with solutions to those who are experiencing it. I know if my new Grenadier experiences excess vibration, and Ineos has not found a solution, I will be look at the possibility of installing a vibration damper on my Grenadier as a first step toward solving the issue.

Coming up with a solution to this issue and others that Forum members have found can only help sales and build the brand, something I know Sir Jim Ratcliffe wants or he would not have created this vehicle for himself and the rest of the world. We are all incredibly grateful he has put his time, effort and money behind this incredible vehicle and only want to see it succeed, improve and prosper. DaBull

Link to my original post.

Q&A Americas - Something Ineos Should Investigate Regarding Vibration Issue

Hi Ineos, There has been a lot of Grenadier owners experiencing vibrations in the drive train that is felt in the vehicle and through the steering wheel. I owned a Range Rover Sport with the exact same issue and Land Rover was able to cure it by installing a damper that they had left off. They...

www.theineosforum.com

Link to the Land Rover Technical Bulletin showing the rubber vibration damper that was screwed onto my Range Rover transfer case.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2013/MC-10214006-9999.pdf

 

[ADVAW8S]

Was the ac not cold or not cold enough?

 

[shiv.nandak]

There is some bizarre background noise/resonance between 60-68 - I specifically checked for it that after seeing a comment yesterday - and it is real.

I believe the term you are looking for is "drone". It usually happens with aftermarket exhaust systems. You could try dropping a gear to see if the noise goes away.

 

[YellowLab]

Was the ac not cold or not cold enough?

Not really cold…

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

This was interesting to say the least - sitting at a light and I felt like I was on a Harley - I even took my foot off the break to move forward and tap the gas and it settled right back into bizarre vibrations.

Nothing like that in mine, not even a touch of it. Weird!

 

[ADVAW8S]

Not really cold…

Something to ask is to have them burp the coolant and add to proper level. Then have them regas the ac unit. Check out post 21 from heater output. It seems that AC/heater seem to have issues when coolant levels are low. Low coolant is a common occurrence on cars being shipped but doesn't show up until you burp them.

Post in thread 'Heater output' https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/heater-output.12413338/post-1333229406

 

[evomind]

Wonder if this is a motor mount issue, or, new vehicle NVH?

Very possible.
Normally you dont need break in time on SUV motor mounts but have experienced this with sports cars.
After some miles the mounts broke in and smoothed out.
Not sure if thats the issue or if it will happen here but maybe.
Usually a motor mount vibration is is felt at a broader RPM range though.
We'll see.

 

[Trialmaster]

Drove the IG today before I signed the paperwork -

1) ADAS system (and bothers some more than others) was not even an issue to me. In the vehicle I had ordered I had to go north of 5-7mph over the speed limit to make it click and when it did it was nothing more than minor annoyance - no vehicle short cuts or settings were changed before by the dealer - vehicle was totally off without a key when we arrived. Moreover after the first couple clicks it went silent
2) Lane Change NEVER came on during the entire drive.
3) Steering concerns are a non-issue - car did fine - weird that the wheel would only adjust forward and back and not up and down (sales guy said he would look into)
4) I did feel a little 'motion' discomfort driving the car - and you will feel isolated from the road - isolation was expected - motion discomfort was not.

A couple observations:
1) LOTS of unsold cancelled orders at the dealership - anything ordered was marked sold - but there were 10 there between the floor/outside I could see.
2) The AC was pretty average and there is ZERO ability to adjust climate between the driver and passenger sides - I know what the hard core crowd will say - but my wife and I can have temps in any of our cars +/- 10 degrees of each other. Before I had never paid attention to it - she noticed immediately and already has concerns about wanting to do much driving with me on a long road trip. As a wise scholar friend from the forum today reminded me via text "happy wife/happy life"
3) Cup holders are for keys - not cups. Too small to be useful - I never noticed - wife saw that immediately. I always have a Nalgene sized bottle with me and there are few beyond my X5 that would take that. My wife had her small Yeti coffee holder with a small base - would not fit so useless for that
4) Rear AC was almost non existent (not impressive) which would not be fun for my yellow lab who is almost always with me
5) There is some bizarre background noise/resonance between 60-68 - I specifically checked for it that after seeing a comment yesterday - and it is real.
6) Vehicle had vibrations just sitting at a stop light - not as bad as a Harley but could feel them annoyingly - I'm driving an X5 diesel right now and have never experienced vibrations/resonance like that in my current car - maybe I would get used to it - who knows - but that was a surprise - maybe an idling problem?
7) Fire extinguisher kills foot positioning for your passenger

At this point I'm going to think on this overnight - dealership was outstanding so no marks on them. I've been a fan since the start and so love the car for everything it is and is not - but the 'not' issues are where I'm stuck right now. I'll know tomorrow what I want to do

@YellowLab you have been here from the start and I am sure you must have been aware of the issues.

Think positive:
1) You don't need to be drinking less stress making Coffee or other beverages while on the move.
2) We all desired a basic vehicle and they gave us one - especially with the AC. Your experience not being able to cool each zone separately shouldn't be a deal breaker. I do understand that the AC should get Cold, ours does, maybe it needs a PDI.
3) NVH, surprised to hear that on the Petrol, I do experience that in 8th gear at 65mph in a Diesel, but it has decreased with mileage.
4) Totally agree with Fire Extinguisher position, just move it ( think the same is valid in most cars).

Hope you make a decision you are happy with, it is difficult as it is a lot of money and risk - good luck.

Oh, BTW, we once had an X5 and they are totally different vehicles.

 

[acwiltshire]

I


I feel very similar, lots of time and emotions invested over the past few years...and I'm still excited when I see the new delivery pics. But my recent demo drive brought to light some of the things that would not meet my family's use (replacing a LR4), and I already have an old 110 ulititarian weekend toy. I'm also 6hrs from a dealer which further complicates the early adoption phase with the growing list of quibbles needing software tweaks. I'm waiting for the delivery call but am leaning towards wanting to see how things evolve over the next year or so. It makes me sad to even type this...lol!

Best of luck in your decision!

Wait a year and see how the IA manufacture and support network improves. Honest

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I believe the term you are looking for is "drone". It usually happens with aftermarket exhaust systems. You could try dropping a gear to see if the noise goes away.

For me it’s more of a drone also. About 2k revs in 8’th. Other speeds and gears it’s gone.

@YellowLab Stanley make a massive cup that fits. I’ll get a pic later.

The hvac, using auto definitely helped and the screen tells you the temp you’ve selected which was surprising. To activate the AC as in cooling you have to switch it on first. It’s not automatic I believe (please correct me on this) there have also been known under gassing gremlins and air locks in the heater matrices as I recall, @OGrid and @DCPU and many others come to mind with these issues.
The split climate control, if that’s a dealbreaker then that’s how it is unfortunately. I wish it had a split zone as well to be honest.

It’s the height of summer in OZ, I’m sure some members are carting their dogs around in the back. Hopefully you’ll get some input.

At this price point if you aren’t happy then taking delivery is a tough decision, for me the head and heart have to say yes.

Edit. Forgot to mention the adas chirping. I have the same experience as you. It flashes for a few seconds when you’re a few mph over the limit then chips after that 4 times then stops. The camera does pick up the road signs as well, at least it loved telling me about the construction on the I10 yesterday. The lane assist noise is the most unobtrusive warning sound a vehicle has ever made to me.

Quick fix, INEOS just swap the sounds around and everyone will be happy.

 

[Chadd7]

I started a thread about the drone and rough idle at red lights. https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/highway-drone-and-loud-idle.12413886/

I'm happy to report that after 370 miles on the odometer, these issues seem to be greatly reduced. Took my son to bball practice yesterday and had to make an effort to get the drone to come back. When it did, it only lasted a few seconds. Will continue to monitor.

 

[Offroad]

These issues are bound to pop up with a new vehicle. If this was BMW or MB for example, they have a time test service department to address issues.

What worries me is the ability of INEOS to acknowledge the problems and the new dealer service departments to be able to address them in a reasonable period of time. This is a pretty significant issue. Time will tell.

 

[YellowLab]

For me it’s more of a drone also. About 2k revs in 8’th. Other speeds and gears it’s gone.

@YellowLab Stanley make a massive cup that fits. I’ll get a pic later.

The hvac, using auto definitely helped and the screen tells you the temp you’ve selected which was surprising. To activate the AC as in cooling you have to switch it on first. It’s not automatic I believe (please correct me on this) there have also been known under gassing gremlins and air locks in the heater matrices as I recall, @OGrid and @DCPU and many others come to mind with these issues.
The split climate control, if that’s a dealbreaker then that’s how it is unfortunately. I wish it had a split zone as well to be honest.

It’s the height of summer in OZ, I’m sure some members are carting their dogs around in the back. Hopefully you’ll get some input.

At this price point if you aren’t happy then taking delivery is a tough decision, for me the head and heart have to say yes.

Edit. Forgot to mention the adas chirping. I have the same experience as you. It flashes for a few seconds when you’re a few mph over the limit then chips after that 4 times then stops. The camera does pick up the road signs as well, at least it lived telling me about the construction on the I10 yesterday. The lane assist noise is the most unobtrusive warning sound a vehicle has ever made to me.

Quick fix, INEOS just swap the sounds around and everyone will be happy.

For me the bottom line is the combination of issues that I’m working through today. Three car exudes so much personality in a world of boring, dull SUVs that loose traction on golf greens That is the heart talking and even part of the head talking. I love the built on purpose mantra. There are two cars that I’ve driven in my life that stood out for what they are - the first is a 911 which still gives goose bumps whenever I sit in it (when it’s not covered up in my garage). The second was a Toyota 4 runner I rented in Costa Rica that had a 5 speed and was a diesel.that was truly wonderful for everything it was not.


The brain side is questioning the resonance and vibrations because we all know it will be a battle with the mechanics trying to recreate the issue saying it is fixed and going back and forth which can be pure hell to deal with. The head also has to listen to the spousal inputs on AC - let’s face it wife not being excited to go in long drives is an issue as well .

On a side note- this is not an x5 I only used the vibrations of a diesel to compare - don’t want it to be one and not looking for a replacement ‘SUaVe’

 

[YellowLab]

These issues are bound to pop up with a new vehicle. If this was BMW or MB for example, they have a time test service department to address issues.

What worries me is the ability of INEOS to acknowledge the problems and the new dealer service departments to be able to address them in a reasonable period of time. This is a pretty significant issue. Time will tell.

In my brain too

 

[Trialmaster]

I always use the phrase "If there is any doubt there is no doubt" to decide my life decisions. Sounds as though it's time to walk away, judging by your comments.

Good luck making your decision.

 

[Loc Nar]

The head also has to listen to the spousal inputs on AC - let’s face it wife not being excited to go in long drives is an issue as well .

This is one issue that is easy to resolve - if you get it, your wife is in charge of the AC settings 24/7 - period - no ifs, ands or buts. If that won't work - walk away . . . from the Grenadier.

 

[Tom109]

With my anticipated pick-up date fast approaching, I drink-up these threads so I will walk in fully informed. I’m not reading any deal breakers, but I’ll have to feel it out in person.

Regarding the AC, even with dual AC I dress for the drive, anticipating my wife’s preference. Typically this means I either over- or under-dress for the weather.

 

[Texas Grenadier]

I really hope you decide to move forward with your purchase. Like you, a lot of us, have some of the same experiences and issues at hand. As an owner of the Grenadier (2 weeks now), any apprehensiveness or vehicle nuances have not been an absolute deal killer for me and I look forward to many more happy miles and smiles! Whether it’s in the shop or not, I signed up for the experience and the pride of ownership of this vehicle. Coming from owning multiple Land Rovers, I’m use to this sort of abuse! at the end of the day, if someone asked me if I would buy another Land Rover based upon my history of ownership, I would say, in a heartbeat.

I do get that if mama doesn’t wanna ride with you, that does cause a big concern. However, I would suck it up and take the abuse on my own and let her be comfortable, because if mom is not happy, nobody’s happy!

 

[DrahthHunter]

Coming from LX 570 96 LC & my FJ cruiser (good cup holders) the other 2 nope & the price of that Lexus charging ports cup holders crap infotainment system I could go on about that. Vibrations nope never not even close. Big Diff between Japanese & German engineering. The more I read the more on the fence I am. If Ineos doesn’t get behind these little issues they are going to have a huge PR problem & inventory sitting. I am like yellow lab this is my dog hauler if I can’t keep that rear area cool for the dogs I’ll just get a used 200.

 

[Tom109]

I really hope you decide to move forward with your purchase. Like you, a lot of us, have some of the same experiences and issues at hand. As an owner of the Grenadier (2 weeks now), any apprehensiveness or vehicle nuances have not been an absolute deal killer for me and I look forward to many more happy miles and smiles! Whether it’s in the shop or not, I signed up for the experience and the pride of ownership of this vehicle. Coming from owning multiple Land Rovers, I’m use to this sort of abuse! at the end of the day, if someone asked me if I would buy another Land Rover based upon my history of ownership, I would say, in a heartbeat.

I do get that if mama doesn’t wanna ride with you, that does cause a big concern. However, I would suck it up and take the abuse on my own and let her be comfortable, because if mom is not happy, nobody’s happy!

In full agreement here. I will also be the one to turn a wrench once non-factory-sanctioned fixes are identified.