TPMS not working after tire change

[Dan-G]

I recently had my tires swapped for new ones, no wheel changes or rotation, just a straight new tire change out.

Everything worked fine for two days and then this morning then this morning the TPMS seems to have disappeared.

I did, two days ago, add the ignition keyhole light from agile which did adjust the fuse - everything worked fine after that - but it was a second change.

Has anyone run into this system totally disappearing and are there any suggestions on a fix?

I’m going to call the tire shop to have them take a look but if I can fix it myself, great.

 

[Tenac]

If I recall someone on the forum posted basically the same issue, 3rd party tires shop but then this. Had to take it to dealer and they quickly reprogrammed and done.

 

[Glen]

This could be a coincidental failure of some other TPMS system component, but the most likely explanation is the TPMS sensors weren’t replaced into their original positions.

Why did they appear to work for a while? When it stops working, the TPMS system will display old data for a period of time - I’ll guess the last two days of “…worked just fine. . .” were short trips that weren’t long enough for the TPMS system to raise an error message.

Without knowing the original position of your sensors, the simplest solution available to you is to have the dealer program the sensor IDs into their new positions.

The math to calculate possible combinations of 4 items in 4 positions is 4! or 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 = 24. Or you can list out the possible combinations like this:

ABCD
ABDC
ACBD
ACDB
ADBC
ADCB

BACD
BADC
BCAD
BCDA
BDAC
BDCA

CABD
CADB
CBAD
CBDA
CDAB
CDBA

DABC
DACB
DBAC
DBCA
DCAB
DCBA

You can assign the letters to a corner of the car, e.g., RF = A and continue clockwise around the vehicle where B = LR, C = RR and D = LF. Based on the premise that all four tires are each currently in the wrong position, we can go even further in the analysis and eliminate all combinations where A is in the first position, B is in the second, C in the third and D in the fourth. I've crossed those combinations out in the list above - here's the viable combinations that remain:

BADC
BCDA
BDAC
CADB
CDAB
CDBA
DABC
DCAB
DCBA

If you choose BADC, you have a 3 / 9 chance it'll be correct. If all four are in the wrong position, then any combo with B in the first position, A in the second, D in the third and C in the fourth are out (I've crossed those choices out in the list above). That leaves you with

CDAB
CDBA
DCAB
DCBA

So really, you only need to try BADC and up to two of the combinations listed above. That would look like this:

Try BADC (1)
All four wrong?
Yes: Try CDAB (2)
At least two will be in the right position - either CDXX or XXAB or XXBA (where XX denotes the multiple choices)
If only CDXX is correct, then solution is CDBA (3)
If XXAB or XXBA are correct, then the first two positions are DC plus the correct of XXAB or XXBA (i.e., DCAB or DCBA) (3)
No: If one is right, follow the same logic to eliminate choices from the second list and proceed. If two are right, swap the two wrong tires.

edit: corrected logic for No condition

 

[Krabby]

Love me some fundamental counting principle.

 

[Dan-G]

This could be a coincidental failure of some other TPMS system component, but the most likely explanation is the TPMS sensors weren’t replaced into their original positions.

Why did they appear to work for a while? When it stops working, the TPMS system will display old data for a period of time - I’ll guess the last two days of “…worked just fine. . .” were short trips that weren’t long enough for the TPMS system to raise an error message.

Without knowing the original position of your sensors, the simplest solution available to you is to have the dealer program the sensor IDs into their new positions.

The math to calculate possible combinations of 4 items in 4 positions is 4! or 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 = 24. Or you can list out the possible combinations like this:

ABCD
ABDC
ACBD
ACDB
ADBC
ADCB

BACD
BADC
BCAD
BCDA
BDAC
BDCA

CABD
CADB
CBAD
CBDA
CDAB
CDBA

DABC
DACB
DBAC
DBCA
DCAB
DCBA

You can assign the letters to a corner of the car, e.g., RF = A and continue clockwise around the vehicle where B = LR, C = RR and D = LF. Based on the premise that all four tires are each currently in the wrong position, we can go even further in the analysis and eliminate all combinations where A is in the first position, B is in the second, C in the third and D in the fourth. I've crossed those combinations out in the list above - here's the viable combinations that remain:

BADC
BCDA
BDAC
CADB
CDAB
CDBA
DABC
DCAB
DCBA

If you choose BADC, you have a 3 / 9 chance it'll be correct. If all four are in the wrong position, then any combo with B in the first position, A in the second, D in the third and C in the fourth are out (I've crossed those choices out in the list above). That leaves you with

CDAB
CDBA
DCAB
DCBA

So really, you only need to try BADC and up to two of the combinations listed above. That would look like this:

Try BADC (1)
All four wrong?
Yes: Try CDAB (2)
At least two will be in the right position - either CDXX or XXAB or XXBA (where XX denotes the multiple choices)
If only CDXX is correct, then solution is CDBA (3)
If XXAB or XXBA are correct, then the first two positions are DC plus the correct of XXAB or XXBA (i.e., DCAB or DCBA) (3)
No: Then all four have to be right since no other combination has each of BADC in those positions.

edit: corrected logic

I love it, thank you! Math for the win - I will give it a whirl.

 

[Glen]

I love it, thank you! Math for the win - I will give it a whirl.

Let us know how it turns out.

It is a little suspicious to me that all four are in the wrong position . . . quite possible but also weirdly fortuitous. Other explanations include the less likely TPMS receiver system failure mentinoned above, or the tire shop removed / broke all your TPMS senders. Breakage or removal seems very unlikely since TPMS is so ubiquitous, even the least experienced tire tech ought to know how to preserve them during a tire change. When I installed programmable TPMS senders with the hex ID cloned for position, my Grenny showed TPMS data within just 2 or 3 minutes of driving, so you shouldn't have to road-test each config for very long.

You might change your spare to some weird pressure temporarily to ensure you're not reading that at one of the four corners (like 20 psi) - the TPMS system does have a provision for swapping the spare tire in and being able to adapt it to the right position. If you see 20 psi at one of the corners, you'll know it's the spare and not one of your 4 road tires.