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Toyota's strategy ...

emax

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It's not about off-road driving. But when the world's largest automaker makes a statement about EVs and how they deal with them, it's worth a notice. So the last word on the future of combustion engines has not yet been spoken.

They're probably smarter than the others. "Freedom of Mobility available to everybody".

 

rovie

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It's not about off-road driving. But when the world's largest automaker makes a statement about EVs and how they deal with them, it's worth a notice. So the last word on the future of combustion engines has not yet been spoken.

They're probably smarter than the others. "Freedom of Mobility available to everybody".

Now I'm going to give my Grenadier Diesel 3-4 years and then see how it goes on. Hydrogen or diesel. I rule out EVs for me.
 

klarie

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Now I'm going to give my Grenadier Diesel 3-4 years and then see how it goes on. Hydrogen or diesel. I rule out EVs for me.
At least I rule out battery powered EV. Also not SolidState Batteries.
E-Fuels, Hydrogen Combustion Engine, okay
perhaps FC (Methanol DFC) may be considered if operating range between refueling is at least 900km and refueling time does not need more time as refueling a petrol or diesel vehicle.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

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I have an EV (Tesla) they are fundamentally better for most drivers in most scenarios, especially in the UK. The Grenadier is for the extreme scenarios, towing, very long range, remote etc. Will probably get a small 2nd EV as well at some point.

I don't have an EV, but I think it was sometime in 2012 that the world demographics shifted from "majority rural" to "majority urban" -- in other words, more than 50% of mankind now lives in cities. I couple that with the record set on the Autobahn in a tesla of 2200 kilometers in 24 hours. Even in a gas car, I've never needed to go that many kilometers in a day - and regardless of the powerplant I wouldn't want to! But it speaks to what's possible when the infrastructure is there.

So I agree with you, Pipm -- for the majority of our species, an EV is a better choice -- it's simpler, quieter, pollutes less at point of use, etc. and it has the capacity to do everything a typical city person (aka, most humans on earth) needs from a vehicle.

The other side of the coin though is that if that electricity comes from burning a billion tons of coal a week or whatever, or if those lithium batteries end up in landfills and messing up the water table, or any number of other issues (which I'll add, the effects of which are often just transferred from the wealthy urban to the rural poor) it's not the solution to pollution that the marketing claims them to be. In some cases, quite the opposite; the video mentions this. But those are separate questions -- the first is "what's the best vehicle for most people"; the second is "what's the best way to move people and goods without impacting the environment". They don't necessarily have the same answer!

Toyota appears to be going broad on the first question -- "Best vehicle for most people" is different if they are urban, and surrounded by infrastructure, as opposed to if they are rural or remote, and they say "Widest range of customers possible". Thats good -- and thank goodness it's Toyota with this attitude. Imagine if the only car company recognizing that some folks need ICE was Fiat or Peugot?!?! Anyone want to go to the back of beyond in a Panda? ;)
 

DDG

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If mankind survives the next fifty years, the religion-like irrationality and group-think of the EV push will be looked back upon as peak stupidity. There’s nothing inherently wrong with an electric vehicle, but it’s completely illogical to ignore where the electricity comes from to power them (carbon emitting sources) and ignoring the massive deficit and lagging technology of so-called renewables. Toyota did not get where they are by acting illogically or naively. If the conversation doesn’t include a road map of how we get from here to there, without destroying our world’s economies, then it is just religion and ideology masquerading as science. Start with a massive push for next gen nuclear. We will still need ICE for the next fifty years.
 

Max

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I don't have an EV, but I think it was sometime in 2012 that the world demographics shifted from "majority rural" to "majority urban" -- in other words, more than 50% of mankind now lives in cities. I couple that with the record set on the Autobahn in a tesla of 2200 kilometers in 24 hours. Even in a gas car, I've never needed to go that many kilometers in a day - and regardless of the powerplant I wouldn't want to! But it speaks to what's possible when the infrastructure is there.

So I agree with you, Pipm -- for the majority of our species, an EV is a better choice -- it's simpler, quieter, pollutes less at point of use, etc. and it has the capacity to do everything a typical city person (aka, most humans on earth) needs from a vehicle.

The other side of the coin though is that if that electricity comes from burning a billion tons of coal a week or whatever, or if those lithium batteries end up in landfills and messing up the water table, or any number of other issues (which I'll add, the effects of which are often just transferred from the wealthy urban to the rural poor) it's not the solution to pollution that the marketing claims them to be. In some cases, quite the opposite; the video mentions this. But those are separate questions -- the first is "what's the best vehicle for most people"; the second is "what's the best way to move people and goods without impacting the environment". They don't necessarily have the same answer!

Toyota appears to be going broad on the first question -- "Best vehicle for most people" is different if they are urban, and surrounded by infrastructure, as opposed to if they are rural or remote, and they say "Widest range of customers possible". Thats good -- and thank goodness it's Toyota with this attitude. Imagine if the only car company recognizing that some folks need ICE was Fiat or Peugot?!?! Anyone want to go to the back of beyond in a Panda? ;)
I don't understand the connection between Italian and French auto companies and ICE and going back and beyond in a Panda...is that the Chinese connection?
 

Manuel4x4

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Well, you would be surprised where my fiat panda 4x4 can go, especially on the snow or on the sand of the Moroccan desert.
 

ECrider

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Well, you would be surprised where my fiat panda 4x4 can go, especially on the snow or on the sand of the Moroccan desert.
Fiat Panda 4x4 - the haloed car of the Brit in the Alps. Amongst other nationalities. Not beyond breaking down but marvellous on the snowy switchbacks
 
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