Americas The threat to Ineos Dealers

[AWo]

The July and August sales numbers by Marklines for the US:

07/2025: 473 units (07/2024: 539 units)
YTD 2025: 2,315
2025 to 2024 YTD (July): -44.8% decrease.

08/2025: 592 units (08/2024: 510 units)
YTD 2025: 2,907
2025 to 2024 YTD (August): -38.2% decrease.

AWo

 

[OkGo]

2025 to 2024, decreasing.... So does that mean 2024 to 2025 is an increase?

 

[AWo]

That means 2025 actually sees a decreasing number of sales compared to 2024.

AWo

 

[OkGo]

I wonder if 2024 numbers were higher just down to pre-booked vehicles being delivered

 

[Roach]

I wonder if 2024 numbers were higher just down to pre-booked vehicles being delivered

Could be a factor and we had a pause in production in 1Q but…. Those numbers don’t bode well for dealers. Many 24’s on the lot and we are fast approaching 26. I suspect that Ineos has some sort of backstop helping dealers (in the US).

 

[Cncpt2]

Southern CA here - local dealers are advertising $8.5k-$10k off, but appears to still be a fairly large number of 24's in stock.

 

[255/85]

I wonder if 2024 numbers were higher just down to pre-booked vehicles being delivered

Yup.

 

[LeeroyJ]

Imagine how many they would be selling if Ineos had managed to keep its original promise that the Grenadier would be priced in the same range as the Jeep Rubicon (i.e. starting in the mid $50's range).

 

[Roach]

Imagine how many they would be selling if Ineos had managed to keep its original promise that the Grenadier would be priced in the same range as the Jeep Rubicon (i.e. starting in the mid $50's range).

I wonder what hurt them more: price or reputation (slow to respond, buggy, etc).

50k will likely be seen for the 24 inventory if it hasn't hit already. Maybe Ineos should broker something to get the 24 inventory pushed out to a commercial client so that the price doesn't dilute MY 25/26.

It has never been easier to start a car company and at the same time it has never been harder to survive.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I spoke to an Ineos dealer and framed the question this way: Part 1)How much do you think you could increase sales if consumers could easily access service and parts (including warranty coverage? Their answer? “At least 2-3 multiple.” Part 2)From a margin and profitability perspective, would you rather have that or the service and parts margins? Their answer? “Easy call - unit sales.”

They don’t want to concede their contract rights without getting something in return, and they are licking their wounds on the ‘24 “customer never converted their reservation” inventory. So they don’t approach Ineos proactively to discuss external service options. But Ineos can’t develop those options with the contracts they have. NEITHER party is happy with the result. Someone has to make the first move.

 

[Tenac]

I spoke to an Ineos dealer and framed the question this way: Part 1)How much do you think you could increase sales if consumers could easily access service and parts (including warranty coverage? Their answer? “At least 2-3 multiple.” Part 2)From a margin and profitability perspective, would you rather have that or the service and parts margins? Their answer? “Easy call - unit sales.”

They don’t want to concede their contract rights without getting something in return, and they are licking their wounds on the ‘24 “customer never converted their reservation” inventory. So they don’t approach Ineos proactively to discuss external service options. But Ineos can’t develop those options with the contracts they have. NEITHER party is happy with the result. Someone has to make the first move.

What a great idea here! I'd like to see some dealerships from around the country jump on the pod cast and share their struggles and successes.

 

[cyson]

I wonder what hurt them more: price or reputation (slow to respond, buggy, etc).

50k will likely be seen for the 24 inventory if it hasn't hit already. Maybe Ineos should broker something to get the 24 inventory pushed out to a commercial client so that the price doesn't dilute MY 25/26.

It has never been easier to start a car company and at the same time it has never been harder to survive.

I suppose even with the slow response, people may ignore it if the price wasn't so high.

I am irrational and didn't mind paying $90k for a specific build but I'm guessing for a new brand, they need to make the potential customers feel like they are getting a deal of some sorts. They will quickly run out of customers like me.

 

[cyson]

I'm curious, if INEOS had not gone more mainstream with the Grenadier and left out some of the fancy conveniences, do you think they would have lost a lot of potential customers? I'm guessing they did some market research and that caused the feature (price) creep.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

What a great idea here! I'd like to see some dealerships from around the country jump on the pod cast and share their struggles and successes.

I suggested something similar to the dealer - get 3 to 5 dealers to have a “how to grow the pie / what if” discussion- no harm, no foul rules.

 

[Roach]

Oliver (Porsche CEO) told investors that it’s a rough road ahead. Same for most if not all. My belief is the old approach (how vehicles are sold/serviced) had failed years ago but a market driven by transient issues kept it alive. Ineos followed the crowd and has ended up in a bad spot; price, quality and dealer failure. IMO, they are way overdue on cleaning house and bring in talent from people that know how to service their enthusiastic owners.

 

[HeavyFoot]

I wonder what hurt them more: price or reputation (slow to respond, buggy, etc).

50k will likely be seen for the 24 inventory if it hasn't hit already. Maybe Ineos should broker something to get the 24 inventory pushed out to a commercial client so that the price doesn't dilute MY 25/26.

It has never been easier to start a car company and at the same time it has never been harder to survive.

In the 50s and I’d buy the ‘24 I looked at in a flash. Dealer is still trying for over 80. It’s ok. I’m patient. I’ll wait.

 

[LeeroyJ]

I wonder what hurt them more: price or reputation (slow to respond, buggy, etc).

50k will likely be seen for the 24 inventory if it hasn't hit already. Maybe Ineos should broker something to get the 24 inventory pushed out to a commercial client so that the price doesn't dilute MY 25/26.

It has never been easier to start a car company and at the same time it has never been harder to survive.

I suspect price hurt them more. Not scientific evidence, but myself and two friends placed reservations the day they opened. In the years after that, the price kept climbing. Only I ended up sticking with my order to the actual purchase.

Adjusted for taxes and duties, the US paid the most of any market Ineos launched in. The difference wasn't just the cost of shipping.

I long said the same thing about the Landcruiser 200 series. The 2012 version I had in Saudi Arabia (I lived there for 13 years) had the twin turbo diesel v8, two fuel tanks, cloth seats, a basic stereo, basic AC, and that's about it. It cost me 156,000 Sar (USD 41,600), back then there were no taxes on vehicle purchases in Saudi. My point though is imaging how well the LC200 would have sold if they had sold that version in the US. Instead, all they offered in the US was the fully loaded leather seats all the bells and whistles version starting at $70K but almost all of them were in the $80's.

 

[OkGo]

right, so what you are saying and I think most will agree with, is that IA set out to address this gap in the market, and said the right things along the way. But the resulting product has just bin packed into one of the top end segment, with a vehicle that might not address the needs at viable scale.

Effectively, the gap remains.