Americas The threat to Ineos Dealers

[MattA]

I'm in the same boat mate and close to retirement, been bouncing back between a lc300 and grenadier trial master. I have no problem buying either but will I be able to get it serviced and repaired in the long term. We only have one service agent in the whole of WA. As much as the dealer believe in the cars it also comes down to paying the bills and keeping quality staff in the w/shops. The new 300 just doesn't do it for me compared to my 100 TD and the grenadier fits the bill perfectly but will it be an expensive mistake as I don't have the years ahead to correct financial mistakes. I need a car like this though for prospecting and travelling the Kimberly and up to the NT.

I have pretty much taken the 300 off my list, look into the weight limits, put on a front bar, winch and lights it’s on GVM front axle limit so a GVM upgrade is a must have then the warranty is not worth anything going by Toyota history , add to that the oil spec is like water and the issues that create along with Toyota history of new model issues it’s just a no go for a few years to see how they pan out.

 

[Roach]

I believe if Ineos could make dealers whole that they would turn in their badge. With the newest car on the lot, 3 in our area, being over 90 days old does that mean dealers have stopped ordering cars for the lot or Ineos only ships every X months (X > 90 days).

 

[AWo]

Maybe $55 bio. turnaround do not solve all problems...

AWo

 

[AWo]

Latest US sales numbers for Ineos Automotive (Source: Marklines):

Jun 2025: 410 units
Jun 2024: 535 units
-23,4%

Jan-Jun 2025: 1,842 units
Jan-Jun 2024: 3,656 units
-49,6%

AWo

 

[MattA]

Latest US sales numbers for Ineos Automotive (Source: Marklines):

Jun 2025: 410 units
Jun 2024: 535 units
-23,4%

Jan-Jun 2025: 1,842 units
Jan-Jun 2024: 3,656 units
-49,6%

AWo

Ouch, given the population and total number of new cars sold that is not good

 

[bakepl]

well.... wonder if this would improve if Ineos fulfilled their promise of ready availability of workshop manuals..... then any workshop could perform maintenance and perhaps tip those sitting on the fence to buy one.. just say'n. (except the service interval notification that requires dealer to sort.. oh, also need to go to dealer re tpms/tyre rotations...) Its a fantastic vehicle but really this needs to be sorted.

 

[AWo]

I can imagine that there are also some other background problems...the switch of the dealer model leaves the financial risks with the dealer. If they need a pre-financing the bank will also have a look. So either they do not get a credit or an expensive one, as the bank will see the risk. They do not wear rose-colored sunglasses. That will continue to reduce the dealer network to some large multi-brand dealers, which are large enough to take the financial challenges.

Ineos initial plan to support a growing dealer network by keeping the financial risk inhouse so more dealers jump on the train, build a good and large, resilient customer base didn't work out. Now, that Ineos main sponsor of Ineos Automotive (the chemical business) itself suffers financial losses and Automotive hasn't earned a cent, yet, they can't keep that up that model and shift the risk to the dealers. But their customer base is too small, too weak to survive only with Ineos Automotive.

You'll see that in the future, that pure Ineos dealers will disappear (if there are any...like in Germany).

AWo

 

[[ Adam ]]

You'll see that in the future, that pure Ineos dealers will disappear (if there are any...like in Germany).

I agree - the current dealership model in the US is likely unsustainable. The abysmal sales numbers you shared above should also be taken in the context that in the US we have more open dealerships in 2025 than we did in 2024.

Less cars and more dealerships is not a recipe for success.

 

[C-Mack]

It’ll never happen of course, but if dealers are going to continue to be thin on the ground, even in the US, how about each dealer has at least one traveling technician on call you can schedule time with and they’ll visit you at home? Especially for smaller repairs or software updates. Not talking heavy mechanical repairs but jobs where they can fix it in the driveway for instance.

I used a mobile tyre service for the first time a few months ago and the gentleman who showed up to install my new tires was professional, courteous, efficient and above all else very detail orientated. Compared to the hassle of taking time to go to a traditional tire shop, the noise, and general inconvenience it was like receiving first class service. Plus you get to talk to the person directly who is doing the work and build a rapport.

I’d gladly pay a nominal service call charge for IA to do this even for work being performed which may be covered by warranty. Big jobs or issues requiring time to resolve going to the dealer workshop still makes sense but for smaller things why not? How cool would it be to have a Quartermaster with a large tool box replacing the truck bed and Ineos logos emblazoned all over it showing up at your house? I guess I’ll continue to dream the dream.

 

[ADVAW8S]

It’ll never happen of course, but if dealers are going to continue to be thin on the ground, even in the US, how about each dealer has at least one traveling technician on call you can schedule time with and they’ll visit you at home? Especially for smaller repairs or software updates. Not talking heavy mechanical repairs but jobs where they can fix it in the driveway for instance.

I used a mobile tyre service for the first time a few months ago and the gentleman who showed up to install my new tires was professional, courteous, efficient and above all else very detail orientated. Compared to the hassle of taking time to go to a traditional tire shop, the noise, and general inconvenience it was like receiving first class service. Plus you get to talk to the person directly who is doing the work and build a rapport.

I’d gladly pay a nominal service call charge for IA to do this even for work being performed which may be covered by warranty. Big jobs or issues requiring time to resolve going to the dealer workshop still makes sense but for smaller things why not? How cool would it be to have a Quartermaster with a large tool box replacing the truck bed and Ineos logos emblazoned all over it showing up at your house? I guess I’ll continue to dream the dream.

Like the Tesla mobile service model

 

[AWo]

In deed, that was the initial plan. Main countries should have one, three or more Ineos owned hubs with technicians. These technicians should support the dealers and also visit you at home if serious problems arise. At the same time the price was still seen in the range of a Hilux, a little bit more. "How should that come together?", I asked, but I was told that is possible. Ok, fine, we see the result. A car around $100k and a thin service network.

AWo

 

[Roach]

Could Ineos be financing or ???? the US dealer inventory? 1842 units for the first 6 months of the year across 20+ dealers is about 50k/month per dealer (assuming 5% of 75k for the dealer). Cars on the lot all over 90 days in our area.

 

[AWo]

Supposed sales are eequaly distributed across the dealers. I assume some are happy, some not.

AWo

 

[255/85]

Latest US sales numbers for Ineos Automotive (Source: Marklines):

Jun 2025: 410 units
Jun 2024: 535 units
-23,4%

Jan-Jun 2025: 1,842 units
Jan-Jun 2024: 3,656 units
-49,6%

AWo

Ouch, given the population and total number of new cars sold that is not good

Hold your horses, hombres. I think you're looking at this all wrong. Those are actually excellent numbers. Here's why I say that:

The first six months sales of 2024 was the culmination of five years of anticipation, two years of reservations, and six months of preorders from the last half of 2023 plus any walk-ins for Jan-June 2024. The 2024 numbers were far above what they had expected. Ineos Automotive readily admitted how unprepared they were for this. I'm convinced (by the smarter folks here) that Ineos believed the majority of sales would happen in the UK and the EU followed by ZA and AU/NZ. The US was almost an afterthought. The scramble to then fulfill the pent up North American demand swamped their diminutive staffing (didn't Clarke say they had 14 people in Raleigh?) and put all other goals on hold. Now that they've finally caught up with their intended multi-country roll out we're finally seeing some energy put toward customer service while adapting to the newer dynamics.

 

[Roach]

And the stop sale/hold waiting for seats.

But….numbers aren’t good enough to keep dealers open.

 

[Zimm]

And the stop sale/hold waiting for seats.

But….numbers aren’t good enough to keep dealers open.

20 dealers, 30 a month each, 10,000 gp per unit over invoice, 300,000/m gp. It ain't Toyota numbers per dealer, but I'm guessing they likely make 2-3x per unit.

 

[MattA]

Hold your horses, hombres. I think you're looking at this all wrong. Those are actually excellent numbers. Here's why I say that:

The first six months sales of 2024 was the culmination of five years of anticipation, two years of reservations, and six months of preorders from the last half of 2023 plus any walk-ins for Jan-June 2024. The 2024 numbers were far above what they had expected. Ineos Automotive readily admitted how unprepared they were for this. I'm convinced (by the smarter folks here) that Ineos believed the majority of sales would happen in the UK and the EU followed by ZA and AU/NZ. The US was almost an afterthought. The scramble to then fulfill the pent up North American demand swamped their diminutive staffing (didn't Clarke say they had 14 people in Raleigh?) and put all other goals on hold. Now that they've finally caught up with their intended multi-country roll out we're finally seeing some energy put toward customer service while adapting to the newer dynamics.

Yet I have heard multiple times the US will be there biggest market
You say Europe and UK was to be the biggest market.
How?
How many dedicated 4wds get sold in the UK and Europe compared to other markets?
That marketing assumption is so for off the mark it’s insane and if that’s what Ineos actually believed they had some very misguided people in the sales and marketing department

 

[255/85]

Yet I have heard multiple times the US will be there biggest market
You say Europe and UK was to be the biggest market.
How?
How many dedicated 4wds get sold in the UK and Europe compared to other markets?
That marketing assumption is so for off the mark it’s insane and if that’s what Ineos actually believed they had some very misguided people in the sales and marketing department

No question that the US is the biggest market. I just don't think it was originally envisioned as such. Look at how many dealerships were originally in the UK vs the US. The US has 5 times number of people but not 5 times the number of dealers/sales locations/agents. Yet.

I "think" Ineos' reasoning was that the utilitarian model in the UK would replace all the aging Defenders. That didn't happen. It could eventually as more and more folks get tired of driving them as Chelsea tractors and the overall OD price vs a new Grenadier starts to force a comparison. How long that will take remains to be seen.

Then IA underestimated to size of the market for a solid axle 4X4 that wasn't a Jeep in NA. An example is the many Toyota fans that dislike Jeeps over here. They can't get a new 70 series and seem to approve of old Defenders/Series vehicles without ever haven been in one so they see that heritage in the Grenadier. The continually rising prices for old iron makes less and less sense but there haven't been any other options over here other than full-size "utes" for twenty five years.