So, knowing what you know, would you buy it again?

[Shopkeep]

 

[landyB]

At first, tons of thanks to Shopkeep for the thread and sorry for my English, its not my mother tongue. I really read all the posts here in this thread to get an overview and i got it.
Till now I missed a perspective in this thread, I want to give here. It is mine.
In younger days I traveled through Southamerica with a backpack, later with an BMW GS 100 (which I trusted) through Europe, Afrika, from Germany to China and so on, then I bought a 110 Defender to continue with more comfort (LoL), lets say more equipment and wife, to northern and western Africa. I do not yet own a grenadier, but followed the story since I sold my 110 because it rusted faster than could be welded. So I am not a newbie in mods and overlanding. I'm not a technician like lot of you guys. I can do smaller maintainance, but I can not repair my vehicles like much of you guys can do. I dont't have a fleet of cars like a lot of you guys have, I don't have an place where I could go underneath my car daily to check the driveshaft. thankfully to the forum - I know now how a Rzeppa works- never heard before, thx. What I mean is my 110 was a car für daily driving and Overlanding. When I travelled, I had no built in equipment, what for, when I was back, I had to drive 50km to work with a consumption of 6 liters on 100 km, sadly 6 liters per axle with petrolprice in Germany not a joke. So before each journey I went to the cellar and fetched the boxes, the fridge, the jerry cans, fixed the roofrack with the rooftent and off we went. My Mech for the 110 has a nickname in the landrovercommunity, called The Healer. He used to say, stay as near to the stock as possible, everything else is a risk. I trusted him, followed him, so far. Once I wanted to show my Landy his birthplace in UK, not knowing BMW closed the factory for visitors because of safetyrisks in the factory ( sough, LR) but had anyway on the way a driveshaftbreak in UK. When I asked the Garage whether they are able to fix a driveshaft they laughed and said they are doing this every day, its landycountry . When I went to Afika I had a box of spareparts and tools with me, not knowing how to use them, but sure somebody somewhere would and could help me.. and my 110 was always ill, but never died. I trusted him

You cannot buy a 70 serie or a Utility G-Wagon in Germany because of the emissions, the Prado looks like a SUV like al the others and is crazy excpensive, the new Defender has no character and all the pickups are not reasonable as a daily in a rainy country and because of the suspensions bad for my back, the jeeps and Broncos are no alternative for Overlanding.

SO , The granadier seemed to me like a reborn 110, the beginning and the end of my dreams of what to drive the next and last 10 - 15 Jears, the last car of my life....

He drinks like an alcoholic, so what, like the 110, drive slowly
Water is coming in, so what , like the 110, wear boots
Heating doesnt function, so what, like the 110, wear warm clothes or open the window in summer
The safari windows make problems, so what, like the 110, take one without safari windows
tha nannyfunctions nerves, so what, the 110 had issues too, and the SW update fixes it
You have to secure some cables and the cooler, so what, I fixed my windowcleaners with a stripe otherwise it could have flown away while driving
the range is totally unaccepable for overlanding and in Europe you can not buy a common aftermarkettank for underneath and you are not allowed to carry jerrycans at the car, bad but possible to handle
Ok, all in all a bad deal for a new car, an normal new car would immediately go back to the dealer as a lemoncar, but so what, the 110 had character too
the promised bumper is plastic., so what, drive carefully and you can have a winch anyway

BUT....My concerns, just for me in my situation

the promised Boschservice is on a different planet
when the warranty has expired and the car breaks down, that's just my luck???? That's ridiculous!
and guys please, its NOT usual to carry a 30 kg spare driveshaft on a stock car while travelling out of DACH
Its not usual to loose the warranty, if you have to buy a Tyre abroad and its not the origina stocksize
its NOT usual to change the driveshaft as often as my oil, no, no, no, it isn't normal, is is a serious constructionfault
and thats my problem, its not technical, it's Trust

SO....I Can not trust Ineos, thats my problem.
This is a very expensive car for people like me as my single car for all duties, so what, thats a deal, but when my part of the deal is my money, so what's Ineos' part of the deal?
I need a reliable car for built on purpose, worldwide INEOS servicenet, or the permission that every mech on earth can repair it, Servicemanual in paper, I dont want to buy starlink just get access to a manual.
Please Ineos, I adore this car, I want to buy this car, but it's your turn to to hold up your end of the deal.
Fix these problems. That's not a gift. It is your promised part of the deal.

Greatings to ya all

 

[Logsplitter]

At first, tons of thanks to Shopkeep for the thread and sorry for my English, its not my mother tongue. I really read all the posts here in this thread to get an overview and i got it.
Till now I missed a perspective in this thread, I want to give here. It is mine.
In younger days I traveled through Southamerica with a backpack, later with an BMW GS 100 (which I trusted) through Europe, Afrika, from Germany to China and so on, then I bought a 110 Defender to continue with more comfort (LoL), lets say more equipment and wife, to northern and western Africa. I do not yet own a grenadier, but followed the story since I sold my 110 because it rusted faster than could be welded. So I am not a newbie in mods and overlanding. I'm not a technician like lot of you guys. I can do smaller maintainance, but I can not repair my vehicles like much of you guys can do. I dont't have a fleet of cars like a lot of you guys have, I don't have an place where I could go underneath my car daily to check the driveshaft. thankfully to the forum - I know now how a Rzeppa works- never heard before, thx. What I mean is my 110 was a car für daily driving and Overlanding. When I travelled, I had no built in equipment, what for, when I was back, I had to drive 50km to work with a consumption of 6 liters on 100 km, sadly 6 liters per axle with petrolprice in Germany not a joke. So before each journey I went to the cellar and fetched the boxes, the fridge, the jerry cans, fixed the roofrack with the rooftent and off we went. My Mech for the 110 has a nickname in the landrovercommunity, called The Healer. He used to say, stay as near to the stock as possible, everything else is a risk. I trusted him, followed him, so far. Once I wanted to show my Landy his birthplace in UK, not knowing BMW closed the factory for visitors because of safetyrisks in the factory ( sough, LR) but had anyway on the way a driveshaftbreak in UK. When I asked the Garage whether they are able to fix a driveshaft they laughed and said they are doing this every day, its landycountry . When I went to Afika I had a box of spareparts and tools with me, not knowing how to use them, but sure somebody somewhere would and could help me.. and my 110 was always ill, but never died. I trusted him

You cannot buy a 70 serie or a Utility G-Wagon in Germany because of the emissions, the Prado looks like a SUV like al the others and is crazy excpensive, the new Defender has no character and all the pickups are not reasonable as a daily in a rainy country and because of the suspensions bad for my back, the jeeps and Broncos are no alternative for Overlanding.

SO , The granadier seemed to me like a reborn 110, the beginning and the end of my dreams of what to drive the next and last 10 - 15 Jears, the last car of my life....

He drinks like an alcoholic, so what, like the 110, drive slowly
Water is coming in, so what , like the 110, wear boots
Heating doesnt function, so what, like the 110, wear warm clothes or open the window in summer
The safari windows make problems, so what, like the 110, take one without safari windows
tha nannyfunctions nerves, so what, the 110 had issues too, and the SW update fixes it
You have to secure some cables and the cooler, so what, I fixed my windowcleaners with a stripe otherwise it could have flown away while driving
the range is totally unaccepable for overlanding and in Europe you can not buy a common aftermarkettank for underneath and you are not allowed to carry jerrycans at the car, bad but possible to handle
Ok, all in all a bad deal for a new car, an normal new car would immediately go back to the dealer as a lemoncar, but so what, the 110 had character too
the promised bumper is plastic., so what, drive carefully and you can have a winch anyway

BUT....My concerns, just for me in my situation

the promised Boschservice is on a different planet
when the warranty has expired and the car breaks down, that's just my luck???? That's ridiculous!
and guys please, its NOT usual to carry a 30 kg spare driveshaft on a stock car while travelling out of DACH
Its not usual to loose the warranty, if you have to buy a Tyre abroad and its not the origina stocksize
its NOT usual to change the driveshaft as often as my oil, no, no, no, it isn't normal, is is a serious constructionfault
and thats my problem, its not technical, it's Trust

SO....I Can not trust Ineos, thats my problem.
This is a very expensive car for people like me as my single car for all duties, so what, thats a deal, but when my part of the deal is my money, so what's Ineos' part of the deal?
I need a reliable car for built on purpose, worldwide INEOS servicenet, or the permission that every mech on earth can repair it, Servicemanual in paper, I dont want to buy starlink just get access to a manual.
Please Ineos, I adore this car, I want to buy this car, but it's your turn to to hold up your end of the deal.
Fix these problems. That's not a gift. It is your promised part of the deal.

Greatings to ya all

I get where you’re coming from, and like you I owned a 110 and overlanded in it. A lot of us came to the Grenadier because we’ve lived with vehicles that had character, quirks and compromises.
I do own a Grenadier, and so far everything I’ve had has been sorted under warranty. When it’s working as intended, it’s a great vehicle and I genuinely enjoy it.
But I agree with your main point. this isn’t really about quirks, it’s about trust. Warranty covers things now, but for a single do everything vehicle, people are rightly thinking about what happens later, especially with safety critical parts and global support.
You sound like someone who wants to buy one, but needs INEOS to properly deliver on the long-term reliability and support they promised. That’s a fair ask.

 

[Zenbox]

This resonates with me and sums up why I just sold my Grenadier today. After having it for almost 28,000 miles, I just found that I did not trust the Company or the vehicle. This was a very difficult decision for me. I love the look and idea of the vehicle. However, I just did not feel that I could trust it and INEOS sure doesn't seem to be following up on their promises or resolutions for ongoing issues. I just should not have concerns for a vehicle with so few miles that it will not be reliable for me and get me to where I want to go and back. I was just tired of worrying about it. The quirks that I put up with have turned into annoyances. I feel like a quitter and am bummed about not having the Grenadier in my garage anymore. However, I am also relieved. I sure hope that it all gets figured out. I guess I am just not cut out to be an early adopter. I could see coming back and getting another one in the future if the drive shaft, HVAC, and software issues are resolved. Good luck to all and I do wish the best for this brand and those that are sticking with it. I hope I was wrong about my decision to sell!

 

[Lexx]

This is why I'm debating whether to buy a nice low mileage used Grenadier or an older normally aspirated V8 Mercedes G wagon. I'm not taking the thing rock crawling. I just want something capable of going through some fire trails and get off the pavement far enough to have some adventure. Those old MBZ V8's are pretty reliable - no turbocharging, no crazy number of coolers mounted everywhere, and you can readily get parts. Yeah, the gas mileage sucks. The Grenny isn't that great on gas either. But I can upsize tires and lift the MBZ without having to worry about CV joints and torn boots. I really wish Ineos would get their act together and find a solution to these seemingly all too common issues so many owners here have suffered.

 

[Gaffer]

I rarely drive off road, on fire roads or on sand. But I do sometimes. I also drive my Fieldmaster, in great comfort on highways for 600 miles in a day. Last weekend, I used the Grenadier to move my daughter' boxes and furniture. Also, it is sharp looking for nicer events. In summary, I find value in the luxury of the Grenadier's flexibility.

 

[wolftimj]

Interesting question (thread title). As I approach two years with mine, and about 12,000 miles I actually started looking around a bit. As I see more Grens the attraction of uniqueness is fading. I’ve been asked this very question many times over the last two years, usually after showing a gawker around the car and my answer was always hesitation followed by “I’ll probably sell it when I start to see more on the road”. But now, after looking for potential replacements I have found nothing that I really want. So I guess my answer may actually be, yeah I guess I would buy it again. Caveats are it’s a second car to my L405 Range Rover Supercharged which I still use if I have any real distance to cover, and without it the previous equation and answer might be different.

 

[Granite Deer]

I have had my Fieldmaster for 1 month and about 900 miles. I came out of a Ford F150 Lightning which I liked but really wanted a smaller vehicle. I loved the Grenadier’s looks and it’s balance of analog and digital.

From a vehicle design, features, purpose, and capabilities perspective, I love it and would buy it again.

From a finish perspective (software, HVAC, amenities, tech features), I feel it was significantly overpriced even appreciating that simple ain’t cheap.

This puts me in a middle-ground where Ineos and their dealer network will make or break how I answer this question. My dealership (Elliot Bay Ineos, Seattle) has been great, but there are factors that are working against Ineos - most of their own making (repeated from another post of mine):

“1. Immature software causing lots of problems
2. Inability to perform OTA updates, requiring long dealership visits (5+ hours estimated for my pending update)
3. A comparatively small dealer network, requiring long drives for many customers
4. They marketed the vehicle as built like they used to build them, with the minimum viable technology. Unfortunately, gov’t regs make that a fairly thick software layer.
5. Lack of availability of a customer-accessible solution to reset diagnostics.”

For me to unequivocally say, “Yes! I’d buy it again in a heartbeat!” it is up to Ineos to solve this. Obviously, they will grow their dealer network as fast as they can.

But it’s inexcusable for me to have been sold a vehicle this expensive, and drive away with software that is nearly a year old with known severe problems. Ineos should immediately:

- Ensure that every single new vehicle that is sold is updated to the latest software, no excuses.

- Release a tech/service manuals system that scales, no excuses. I heard the recent CEO interview, and laughed as she talked about how hard it is to scale a system to thousands of people. It’s 2025. C’mon.

- Find a way QUICKLY to authorize 3rd party shops to diagnose and clear codes in the system. Make it affordable for them. You will never scale your dealer network fast enough to service your customers. I had a 6+ week wait to get a software update appointment.

If Ineos responds well to the pressures they are feeling, it’ll be great for us customers and make answering this question much easier for many of us.

 

[d901560]

I joined this forum a few weeks ago to learn more about the Grenadier and I am considering buying a Quartermaster to replace a 9 year old TRD Toyota Tacoma I use for hauling stuff around at home and overlanding / camping trips in UT / CO / NM. I'm also a NAS Defender owner for over 20 years, so I like working on my vehicles and I'm pretty forgiving with the quirks and issues that come with owning a niche vehicle. I don't expect the Ineos to be a Toyota in terms of reliability, but I can't get my head around having to inspect propshaft CV joints and carrying spares to go on a road trip or worrying about going over a neighborhood speed bump too fast and pinching a CV boot. I'm also used to having lockers that engage and disengage when I want them to and being able add a 2" lift and run 33-34" tires on my truck without causing issues.

For now I'll just wait to see if anything gets resolved with the CV issue and will hang on to my Taco a while longer. I'm pretty disappointed with the reliability of all of the midsize and half ton pickup options available in the US right now, including the new Toyotas.

I do really like this forum though. Lots of good info and it reminds me of the D90Source forum in the 2000s. i hope to participate more as a owner someday if this propshaft issue is sorted.

 

[Tenac]

I joined this forum a few weeks ago to learn more about the Grenadier and I am considering buying a Quartermaster to replace a 9 year old TRD Toyota Tacoma I use for hauling stuff around at home and overlanding / camping trips in UT / CO / NM. I'm also a NAS Defender owner for over 20 years, so I like working on my vehicles and I'm pretty forgiving with the quirks and issues that come with owning a niche vehicle. I don't expect the Ineos to be a Toyota in terms of reliability, but I can't get my head around having to inspect propshaft CV joints and carrying spares to go on a road trip or worrying about going over a neighborhood speed bump too fast and pinching a CV boot. I'm also used to having lockers that engage and disengage when I want them to and being able add a 2" lift and run 33-34" tires on my truck without causing issues.

For now I'll just wait to see if anything gets resolved with the CV issue and will hang on to my Taco a while longer. I'm pretty disappointed with the reliability of all of the midsize and half ton pickup options available in the US right now, including the new Toyotas.

I do really like this forum though. Lots of good info and it reminds me of the D90Source forum in the 2000s. i hope to participate more as a owner someday if this propshaft issue is sorted.

Smart thinking here, but honestly I don't think the CV will be addressed with anything but a new model refresh at this point.... However I did have the Quartermaster as a loaner and it drives MUCH better than the Grenadier I think mostly due to the longer wheel base. I'm lifted just hit 10k no CV issue YET. lol

 

[AztecGrenadier]

I joined this forum a few weeks ago to learn more about the Grenadier and I am considering buying a Quartermaster to replace a 9 year old TRD Toyota Tacoma I use for hauling stuff around at home and overlanding / camping trips in UT / CO / NM. I'm also a NAS Defender owner for over 20 years, so I like working on my vehicles and I'm pretty forgiving with the quirks and issues that come with owning a niche vehicle. I don't expect the Ineos to be a Toyota in terms of reliability, but I can't get my head around having to inspect propshaft CV joints and carrying spares to go on a road trip or worrying about going over a neighborhood speed bump too fast and pinching a CV boot. I'm also used to having lockers that engage and disengage when I want them to and being able add a 2" lift and run 33-34" tires on my truck without causing issues.

For now I'll just wait to see if anything gets resolved with the CV issue and will hang on to my Taco a while longer. I'm pretty disappointed with the reliability of all of the midsize and half ton pickup options available in the US right now, including the new Toyotas.

I do really like this forum though. Lots of good info and it reminds me of the D90Source forum in the 2000s. i hope to participate more as a owner someday if this propshaft issue is sorted.

I have 20K miles with no real issues.
I do not have a lift and did not plan on adding this modification.

I regularly drive off road and explore rugged areas of Colorado, Utah, and New Mexico. (We have an off road park 15 miles from my home).

The only thing I have ever needed to do is add a little coolant and learn the little nuances of the Grenadier.

I have taken 1300 miles trips towing an Airstream.

I am getting 21 MPG (Without the trailer).

I replaced my 2015 VW Touareg TDI with the Grenadier.

I have had better service, parts availability, and reliability with the Grenadier.

I may purchase spare parts for the drive shaft. But I am not stressed about it.

The Grenadier is fun, interesting, capable, and rugged. The B58 engine has a good history and all of the long term issues have been identified.

So... just another personal perspective.

 

[LabRat]

I am getting 21 MPG (Without the trailer).
So... just another personal perspective.

21 MPG - holy crap batman. I'm jealous

 

[AztecGrenadier]

21 MPG - holy crap batman. I'm jealous

I have to compete with my RAV4 Hybrid (44 MPG in the summer and 41 in the winter).

It does take concentration to get 21 MPG. I am looking at the display and have a conservative driving style.

I do record my gas purchases so this is a real world number.

 

[Krabby]

21 MPG - holy crap batman. I'm jealous

@AztecGrenadier
Computer telling you that?

edit - NVM, just saw your other post)

 

[RB60]

I am just starting my experience at 3,000 miles and respect all of those who have bought theirs prior to my purchase. It takes a bit of a risk taker to jump into the IG world at the outset. I am sure there is a common thread running between us all. With that said, we are all in an interesting place with Ineos. Somewhat of a limbo as to where and how the company decides to go relative to customer satisfaction and building a brand others will want to own. Aside from my personal draw to the story and vehicle, there is something satisfying about being on the front side of this journey with Ineos, good and bad. I am fortunate to be in a good place in my life where I can afford to ride out the ups and downs, as long as Ineos holds up their end of things over the next several years.

 

[d901560]

@AztecGrenadier
I'm glad you have had a positive IG experience and I appreciate your perspective. I'm also taking all of the negative comments with a grain of salt because its usually the upset users that will be the most vocal. I agree the BMW powertrain is a positive for the Grenadier and I have no concerns there. I don't need a new truck yet so I'll wait and see how things go for a bit before buying anything.

 

[Zimm]

This is why I'm debating whether to buy a nice low mileage used Grenadier or an older normally aspirated V8 Mercedes G wagon. I'm not taking the thing rock crawling. I just want something capable of going through some fire trails and get off the pavement far enough to have some adventure. Those old MBZ V8's are pretty reliable - no turbocharging, no crazy number of coolers mounted everywhere, and you can readily get parts. Yeah, the gas mileage sucks. The Grenny isn't that great on gas either. But I can upsize tires and lift the MBZ without having to worry about CV joints and torn boots. I really wish Ineos would get their act together and find a solution to these seemingly all too common issues so many owners here have suffered.

I'd get the '13-'15 g550. It's a later model Merc out of warranty, which is why I'd avoid the turbos. KISS.

 

[Zimm]

I have 20K miles with no real issues.


I am getting 21 MPG (Without the trailer).

20k miles and youre claiming 21mpg over that entire 20k miles...

Fuel MPG claims are like fish stories... Since Ineos epa is 15/15 its easy. Thats 40% more than the EPA cycle, and 47% more than me at 22k miles ... And I have never taken this rig off road. Do have contemporaneous notes that can add a little veracity to this claim? Like, a pic of a mileage logbook? I can claim 50mpg... from my cabin into town which is a 2000ft drop.. I'll just selectively ignore the back home trip, though.

 

[pmatusov]

“I’ll probably sell it when I start to see more on the road”.

That's some strong poseur admission