Snow chains

[DefenderGuy]

Has anyone in the US purchased the recommended snow chains (either the A 82 S Austro-S or the XMR 82 V Brenta-C 4x4) recently? Pewag (maker of the XMR 82 V Brenta-C) advertises a US production facility but I haven't been able to find a reputable US retailer. Do any of the Grenadier affiliated parts companies carry either of these (or other approved / recommended) tire chains? If anyone in the US has bought Pewag chains recently, assuming you were satisfied with the service (and product), please give a recommendation. (I have a feeling the apparent shortage is tariff related but I'm happy to be corrected if there's another explanation.)

 

[INEOS OG]

If I were to “need” chains on my IG to get where I need to go, I’m not going. I have been driving in snow country in the Americas from 5k to 14k feet for 40 years.

You be you, but if you are uncertain about chaining up an IG you are in over your head.

 

[Tinerfeño]

In Finland 25 years ago practically nobody used tyre chains in their 4x4's. Then I imported first lot of Mafri chains from Italy, arranged some driving and training events and voilá, there is need for those. Some use them only for hobby but many people that need to get to places outside plowed roads use those. Forest workers, guy that services windmills, hunters, emergency services, etc.

Pictures from winter driving event 2013.

I have done a lot of light forest work between 1990 and 2015. This would be practically impossible without chains. This picture is from 2013.

In Tenerife the roads up the Teide are closed when there is snow or rainfall (risk for landslides) and so far I have no risked going there during shutdown. But when I can get chains I will certainly try that!

 

[ECrider]

Certain places in Europe you can be fined for not having chains or socks in the boot in addition to winter tyres. Perhaps some non mountainous regions yoj can have either/or.... Definitely better to have and not need than........

 

[CRH]

Definitely better to have and not need than........

That's always been my philosophy, boot full of stuff I haven't used but...

 

[DefenderGuy]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm in the early stages of planning a trip from Cochrane to Fort Albany on James Bay in northern Ontario. Almost all of this 400 km journey is on winter ice roads which are generally pretty well maintained during the few weeks that they operate. That said, I think there's a lot to be said for having chains if, for example, one encounters an unexpected blizzard en route. (There are NO services of any kind other than at Moosonee / Moose Factory.) If anyone has bought chains for his Grenadier and/or knows a reputable dealer who sells the recommended (or compatible) chains here in the States, I'd be grateful for a referral. Meanwhile, I'll just second ECrider "better to have and not to need." (Interestingly, chains are apparently illegal on regular highways in Ontario.)

 

[Tinerfeño]

(Interestingly, chains are apparently illegal on regular highways in Ontario.)

In Finland they are legal but usually only lumber trucks use them outside highways.
I have occasionally used those on highways and streets for short time, but they are so uncomfortable that nobody will use them without a good reason.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

We had this same discussion last winter. I think the answer is “it all depends.” Generally everyone agrees nothing replaces true winter tires. Then the question is studded vs non-studded. That depends on whether they will be seeing dry pavement - if so, remember the studded ones have worse stopping performance on dry pavement. Then there is the question of chains vs socks. There are some country regulations around that - like Austria, oddly enough - where socks won’t meet the requirements. You have to carry chains. I think it depends on what you’re doing. If you’re driving over the Sierras on highway/interstate- my PERSONAL recommendation is to go with socks. Socks are, for me, a “get out of trouble when you’re off the side of the road,” kind of thing, or there has been a big snow dump over a paved road. If I were really on a trail in deep powder - I would want chains. I have a folding shovel in back and use that Leitner Sidekick for recovery boards, as well. Just if I have to dig out. So I don’t think there is really a generic “what should I run in winter” answer. It really depends. And there are even scenarios where the stock 3PMSF K02’s are enough - but I think that would be limited to lighter winter conditions.

 

[ECrider]

Exactly. I have an Audi quattro and it cannot use ordinary chains due to suspensions proximity etc only the really expensive sort around the middle. so I bought two pairs of socks and the packaging has a letter type statement addressed to the French saying along the lines off don't give him a ticket, after years of lobbying your road dept. now recognises them as alternatives to chains.

Used them in anger in France, highly effective but not very robust obviously. Work like sipes by picking up snow and using that snow to grip the next snow.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Exactly. I have an Audi quattro and it cannot use ordinary chains due to suspensions proximity etc only the really expensive sort around the middle. so I bought two pairs of socks and the packaging has a letter type statement addressed to the French saying along the lines off don't give him a ticket, after years of lobbying your road dept. now recognises them as alternatives to chains.

Used them in anger in France, highly effective but not very robust obviously. Work like sipes by picking up snow and using that snow to grip the next snow.

What did we say last winter? Socks meet chainrequirements for France and Switzerland but not Austria? I honestly can’t remember

 

[ECrider]

What did we say last winter? Socks meet chainrequirements for France and Switzerland but not Austria? I honestly can’t remember

Last week is a stretch for me let alone last year!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Last week is a stretch for me let alone last year!

The awesome thing about senility is I keep meeting cool new people.

 

[Tinerfeño]

Then the question is studded vs non-studded. That depends on whether they will be seeing dry pavement - if so, remember the studded ones have worse stopping performance on dry pavement.

Yes, but the difference is so small that it doesn't have any practical meaning. About 80% of cars (more than 2 million cars) in Finland are using studded tyres half of the year. Average use of cars is ~20000 km/year so this makes 20000 million driven kilometers and most of that/, say 80% are driven on pavement. Very few accidents occur in these conditions.

Chains are different as on pavement there isn't practically any contact between road and tyre rubber.

 

[parb]

Growing up and learning to drive in Sweden, and having driven extensively in the northern parts of scandinavia past the polar circle i have an opinion or two on the subject.

first off, there got to be a lot of snow on the ground before i would even consider snow chains. Like a lot. I would have studded tires on pretty early in the season (but after the snow covers the road) but after i got the studded tires on it would be exceedingly rare for me to put on chains.
If i drive in place that is so deep with snow that chains are truly required (even on unplowed forest roads), i would much rather be on a snow-cat tracked vehicle or a snowmobile belted vehicle. I have driven in snow storms where you get 10 inches of fresh stuff per hour but even in that i didn't think the answer was chains (and i would be far more concerned about getting my heater blocked up by snow, creating a cocoon and overheating the car).

net net, i'd put on studded tires and slow down my speed in a 4x4 for 99% of my snow driving. Chains would be an exceedingly rare thing for me to put on and that would only be in pretty deep snow. i would seriously question if i'm in the right vehicle for the conditions at that point...

 

[CRH]

Growing up and learning to drive in Sweden, and having driven extensively in the northern parts of scandinavia past the polar circle i have an opinion or two on the subject.

first off, there got to be a lot of snow on the ground before i would even consider snow chains. Like a lot. I would have studded tires on pretty early in the season (but after the snow covers the road) but after i got the studded tires on it would be exceedingly rare for me to put on chains.
If i drive in place that is so deep with snow that chains are truly required (even on unplowed forest roads), i would much rather be on a snow-cat tracked vehicle or a snowmobile belted vehicle. I have driven in snow storms where you get 10 inches of fresh stuff per hour but even in that i didn't think the answer was chains (and i would be far more concerned about getting my heater blocked up by snow, creating a cocoon and overheating the car).

net net, i'd put on studded tires and slow down my speed in a 4x4 for 99% of my snow driving. Chains would be an exceedingly rare thing for me to put on and that would only be in pretty deep snow. i would seriously question if i'm in the right vehicle for the conditions at that point...

I suppose the question is, if you didn't plan ahead and check the weather, then get caught out in a country that doesn't use studded tyres and you hadn't been earlier driving a long distance on your snowmobile whilst on holiday with the family. Suddenly there was heavy snow storm on roads that are normally bare tarmac with grit/salt. You had headed off into the mountain area as it looked nice and frosty, what would you rather have in your boot ready to put on your vehicle when the snow comes down heavt and puts 5 inches of snow on cold tarmac.

The answer isn't always what is the correct thing to have at that time as that may not have been suitable at the start.

 

[Blackwolf]

I've used snow chains on my Defender and Series Land-Rovers several times in the past 40 years or so, but never in snow, only mud!

 

[skinny_tom]

Certain places in Europe you can be fined for not having chains or socks in the boot in addition to winter tyres. Perhaps some non mountainous regions yoj can have either/or.... Definitely better to have and not need than........

In California all vehicles are required to "carry chains" any time chains are required on 2WD cars. (let's leave the big rigs out of this discussion.) Highway Patrol reliably closes the road before you'd need them on your 4WD with appropriate tires, but you're still required by law, and can be fined, if you don't have them. I don't know if studded tires absolves one from the requirement. (Almost) nobody carries them in their 4WD. I don't know a person who has been asked to show chains. Like others though, the minute you're off tarmac, all bets are off without them.