Side lights

[Blackwolf]

One thing that is missing from the online manuals to which some of us are now lucky enough to have access is any sort of electrical manual or schematics. Whilst the lights are clearly software controlled I don't know if they are CANbus or similar, so intelligent lights switched at the light, or if ultimately they are illuminated by having a 12V feed turned on. I think the tail lights are the latter but I'm not certain.

If they are switched on by the application of 12V it should be possible to add a traditional switch.

Anyone know how the lights actually work?

 

[CountyV8]

Here we go again.
"
Hi Jon,

In response to your inquiry, I have received feedback from the technical team, which has stated below:



" it's not an operating function on the grenadier but we do comply"





Please do not hesitate to contact us if you need any further assistance.

Thanks, "

 

[CountyV8]

Just a thought would it pass a VOSA test.

 

[landmannnn]

My response from IA appears to be different again: They seem to be acknowledging that there is a compliance issue. If I have read it correctly.

Based on the information we have just gathered, it appears to be a compliance issue with section 24(1)(b) of the Motor Vehicle Lighting Regulations, 1989 (as amended), and not with clause 6.12.7 of document E/ECE/324/Rev.1/Add.47/Rev.9.

We sincerely appreciate your feedback, which greatly contributes to the improvement of our services and products, and we have duly noted it.

In the meantime, we would like to inform you that our dealerships are working closely with our service representatives and the regional sales manager.

We would therefore appreciate it if you could discuss this matter with your dealership so that they are fully informed and can provide you with an explanation and the necessary steps to take. We are confident that your dealer will then be willing to discuss this with the after-sales service department, which will then pass the information on to the technical team. This will undoubtedly allow the regulatory compliance teams to investigate the issue, if any, and resolve any technical difficulties.

 

[Owen1066]

Hi, new to the forum so just catching up with this important night time visibility issue.

I've noticed some references in this thread to using Hazard lights instead when parked in the dark, on occasion with mine (Diesel 2023), once out of vehicle and locked, the Hazard lights can also turn off after a couple of minutes leaving the vehicle completely in the dark. They then re-start to flash once the engine is ignition is turned on again.

I did wonder if the vehicle looks at it's battery health on the day and then decides to turn them off if looking a bit low?

Anyway, just thought i'd make people aware that leaving your Hazard lights on and locking vehicle does not guarantee they will still be flashing when you return, they are not wired independently and car's brain still has control over them!

 

[CRH]

My response from IA appears to be different again: They seem to be acknowledging that there is a compliance issue. If I have read it correctly.

Based on the information we have just gathered, it appears to be a compliance issue with section 24(1)(b) of the Motor Vehicle Lighting Regulations, 1989 (as amended), and not with clause 6.12.7 of document E/ECE/324/Rev.1/Add.47/Rev.9.

We sincerely appreciate your feedback, which greatly contributes to the improvement of our services and products, and we have duly noted it.

In the meantime, we would like to inform you that our dealerships are working closely with our service representatives and the regional sales manager.

We would therefore appreciate it if you could discuss this matter with your dealership so that they are fully informed and can provide you with an explanation and the necessary steps to take. We are confident that your dealer will then be willing to discuss this with the after-sales service department, which will then pass the information on to the technical team. This will undoubtedly allow the regulatory compliance teams to investigate the issue, if any, and resolve any technical difficulties.

Sounds like the constant questioning is having an effect. Odd that we have to go through the dealers to get actions, obviously the chain of comand at customer services just refers them and therefore us to the nearest dealer

 

[CountyV8]

Is IA the opposite of AI ?

 

[Blackwolf]

Hi, new to the forum so just catching up with this important night time visibility issue.

I've noticed some references in this thread to using Hazard lights instead when parked in the dark, on occasion with mine (Diesel 2023), once out of vehicle and locked, the Hazard lights can also turn off after a couple of minutes leaving the vehicle completely in the dark. They then re-start to flash once the engine is ignition is turned on again.

I did wonder if the vehicle looks at it's battery health on the day and then decides to turn them off if looking a bit low?

Anyway, just thought i'd make people aware that leaving your Hazard lights on and locking vehicle does not guarantee they will still be flashing when you return, they are not wired independently and car's brain still has control over them!

This is disturbing, I have to admit that I haven't tried leaving my hazards on but will do so to see what happens. It is possible that the hazards are also controlled by the BCU and shut down when the BCU powers down (your estimate of a couple of minutes would be consistent with this) in which case the problem is worse that we thought and I would suggest that IA will have to take some action.

 

[CRH]

Is IA the opposite of AI ?

Isn't that what we wanted

 

[Blackwolf]

My response from IA appears to be different again: They seem to be acknowledging that there is a compliance issue. If I have read it correctly.

Based on the information we have just gathered, it appears to be a compliance issue with section 24(1)(b) of the Motor Vehicle Lighting Regulations, 1989 (as amended), and not with clause 6.12.7 of document E/ECE/324/Rev.1/Add.47/Rev.9.

We sincerely appreciate your feedback, which greatly contributes to the improvement of our services and products, and we have duly noted it.

In the meantime, we would like to inform you that our dealerships are working closely with our service representatives and the regional sales manager.

We would therefore appreciate it if you could discuss this matter with your dealership so that they are fully informed and can provide you with an explanation and the necessary steps to take. We are confident that your dealer will then be willing to discuss this with the after-sales service department, which will then pass the information on to the technical team. This will undoubtedly allow the regulatory compliance teams to investigate the issue, if any, and resolve any technical difficulties.

This is the first time that there has been any acknowledgement from IA that there may be a compliance issue, so quite a result! Keep up the pressure.

Who is your dealer, if I might ask?

 

[landmannnn]

This is the first time that there has been any acknowledgement from IA that there may be a compliance issue, so quite a result! Keep up the pressure.

Who is your dealer, if I might ask?

I have emailed the after sales manager at Grange Midlands. I also pointed out that this may be an MOT failure (or advisory)

 

[landmannnn]

I would actually prefer it if the technical team could spend their time on providing an alternative service reset capability.

 

[Blackwolf]

I remembered that there was an electrical system schematics document uploaded to the resources area of the forum, so have just spent a while studying it.

It appears that the stalk switch is connected to the Steering Column Module or SCM which is then linked to the BCM via one of the CANbuses. The front and rear position lights and the number plate light are wired directly from the BCM. Incidentally indicator lights are similarly BCM controlled, so it is entirely plausible that they also turn off when the BCM powers down, this is something I haven't been able to test yet.

If my interpretation is correct (and the production vehicles are actually wired as shown in the schematics document, which has characteristics of early development) then it should be possible to provide a 12V feed directly into the position lamps to allow them to remain on indefinitely. I am not sure whether it would b e necessary to disconnect them from the BCM or if the BCM would be happy with a 12V feed applied to a number of BCM outputs, and I am not sure how any fault detection and diagnostics would react. If I am honest I'd rather someone else with more knowledge of modern vehicle electronics tried it since I don't want to risk damaging my BCM! However, it would certainly seem that it should be possible to produce an overlay harness that would allow all the position lamps to be switched on irrespective of ignition/engine status using a single switch.

If the hazards power down it would be more difficult to solve since the flashing pattern appears to be provided by the BCU, however if the hazards power down after 2 minutes I think there is a greater chance of IA becoming interested in a solution.

 

[landmannnn]

it should be possible to provide a 12V feed directly into the position lamps to allow them to remain on indefinitely. I am not sure whether it would b e necessary to disconnect them from the BCM or if the BCM would be happy with a 12V feed applied to a number of BCM outputs, and I am not sure how any fault detection and diagnostics would react. If I am honest I'd rather someone else with more knowledge of modern vehicle electronics tried it since I don't want to risk damaging my BCM!

I had thought the same.
In practice Backfeeding the power transistor (or whatever is used in the BCM) powering the side lights carries a risk of damaging components. As you say, not just the power device, there are presumably some circuits which will trigger a "light bulb out" warning if you used a relay to isolate the BCM from the side light circuit.

 

[Blackwolf]

The BCM also clearly monitors the load when the lamps are illuminated to activate the lamp failure warning and in some cases disable a defective lamp (as people have found trying to add additional reverse lights, for example). Back-feeding is not something I'd want to try on my vehicle, but I think it is useful to know that as a concept there is a potential solution. If only we can persuade IA to engineer it and retrofit it.

 

[landmannnn]

The BCM also clearly monitors the load when the lamps are illuminated to activate the lamp failure warning and in some cases disable a defective lamp (as people have found trying to add additional reverse lights, for example). Back-feeding is not something I'd want to try on my vehicle, but I think it is useful to know that as a concept there is a potential solution. If only we can persuade IA to engineer it and retrofit it.

An alternative might be software. Something as simple as "if side lights on then keep BCM active"

 

[CountyV8]

Just tried leaving hazards on with vehicle locked works for over 36 mins when I gave up.

 

[Blackwolf]

Similarly before leaving work I unlocked the car, switched on the hazards, then relocked it. After 2.1/2 minutes or so the car powered down but the lights kept flashing.

If it's possible for the hazards it's possible for the position lamps, we just need IA to accept it should be done.