The Grenadier Forum
Register a free account today, you'll be able to post, access to the Technical section of the site, access the classified ads, and participate in group buys as well as other benefits. If you are an INEOS Agent/Dealer please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.
  • By popular demand and voted down by a single nay there is an option to let everyone know where you are in the Grenadier order process. In your user preferences select whichever applies to you.

Should I ? - Wheels

ECrider

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
682
Reaction score
683
Location
UK
And I never trusted a rattle gun. Overtightening ain't good either!

especially if anything like the ones my D4 used to have, I've had higher tensile chocolate!

chucked them all in the bin together with those atrocious locking security nuts. Now have solid stainless.
 

ECrider

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
682
Reaction score
683
Location
UK
I've never used these. Any problems with galling?
no problems so far

this is the company;

 

Tazzieman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
495
Reaction score
676
Location
Tasmania
no problems so far

this is the company;

Some suggest a smear of copper grease, but that attracts grit and affects torque settings. Main thing is for the threads to withstand the forces!
 

ECrider

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
682
Reaction score
683
Location
UK
Some suggest a smear of copper grease, but that attracts grit and affects torque settings. Main thing is for the threads to withstand the forces!
I apply a smidge of copper grease and test tighten them everytime I check pressures or inflate/deflate. Does effect torque but I'm more worried about seizure than the little effect on torque values
 

Tazzieman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
495
Reaction score
676
Location
Tasmania
I apply a smidge of copper grease and test tighten them everytime I check pressures or inflate/deflate. Does effect torque but I'm more worried about seizure than the little effect on torque values
That's what I do with spark plugs and other fasteners ; nothing worse than a seized bolt or stud!
 

Spjnr

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Messages
426
Reaction score
300
Location
Essex
Never ever lubricate screws before screwing them in. If they have no friction, any torque setting is invalid.
There was a huge thread about this topic on Arbtalk (Arborist forum I'm on), as it relates to blade bolts on woodchipper flywheels.

Different manufacturers even were on either side of the argument. Someone's blade bolts had sheared off, and too much copper slip resulting in over torqueing was to blame. The manufacturer had blamed the use of the lubricant and voided the warranty.
 

Tazzieman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
495
Reaction score
676
Location
Tasmania
There was a huge thread about this topic on Arbtalk (Arborist forum I'm on), as it relates to blade bolts on woodchipper flywheels.

Different manufacturers even were on either side of the argument. Someone's blade bolts had sheared off, and too much copper slip resulting in over torqueing was to blame. The manufacturer had blamed the use of the lubricant and voided the warranty.
When you've had to helicoil the alloy block on an expensive Porsche V8 engine , because the old steel factory bolts (A total of 14 hold the water pump on) had galled themselves in, you realise that sometimes you have to compromise.
But by and large do what the factory manual recommends . A little antiseize or oil on the threads can save a ton of hurt later. As long as you know the metallurgy and are prepared to wear the consequences of your actions , I see no problem at all!
 

Spjnr

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Messages
426
Reaction score
300
Location
Essex
When you've had to helicoil the alloy block on an expensive Porsche V8 engine , because the old steel factory bolts (A total of 14 hold the water pump on) had galled themselves in, you realise that sometimes you have to compromise.
But by and large do what the factory manual recommends . A little antiseize or oil on the threads can save a ton of hurt later. As long as you know the metallurgy and are prepared to wear the consequences of your actions , I see no problem at all!
Oh yes im in agreement. Just pointing out an example of how it effects torque settings substantially. It generally comes down to how often said bolt is being removed, for instance the blade bolts on my Woodchipper are removed at least once a month to facilitate blade change, so they don't tend to have time to seize up. Couple this with how catastrophic a 3kg blade breaking off and being sent through the spout by a 3000rpm flywheel is, it makes sense to leave the lubricant on the bench!
That being said, with other bolts that are staying in place for months or years, a bit of preventative lube wont hurt. As you say, as long as you understand the consequences
 

Tazzieman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
495
Reaction score
676
Location
Tasmania
. Couple this with how catastrophic a 3kg blade breaking off and being sent through the spout by a 3000rpm flywheel is, it makes sense to leave the lubricant on the bench!
There is a reason lawnmower blades always come with new bolts and washers!
 

emax

Very Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
2,023
Reaction score
1,494
Location
Germany
If a screw is lubricated, it can easily break off because the intended torque is not reached in time.

This seems to be a religious matter in many discussions. But I stand by my experience.

There is however a difference between oil and grease or copper paste. Copper paste contains fine ground copper and may be suitable in many cases. But I am still very reluctant to change anything if it will affect the friction values between a critical bolted joint. Especially when things like a cylinder head, an oil pump cover or the like are involved.


PS: Another confusion exists between lubrcation and mounting pastes. Mounting pastes usually contain friction improvers for the exact reason told above, which oil and grease do of course not.
 
Last edited:

Cheshire cat

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
May 30, 2022
Messages
145
Reaction score
225
Location
Cheshire, UK
Read a paper online from Bentley motors. The outcome was that lubricant was not a good idea on wheel studs. My empirical experience over 45 years motoring whereby I always used CopperSlip has so far never involved loss of a wheel or further torquing between services.
That said I don’t doubt the science regarding clean / dry surfaces being theoretically better.
 

Andrew Kilby

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
Jun 14, 2022
Messages
33
Reaction score
19
Location
Sunshine Coast - Australia
Hi

I have answered this several times and each time slightly differently.
  1. I am about to turn 60 and I am looking for a new car that will last me 20 years
  2. I will be moving to the country by the sea in January 2023
  3. The new vehicle needs to meet a wide range of needs such as
    1. long drives on the highway and back roads
    2. Visits to Fraser island driving on the sand
    3. gravel and dirt roads in the country, rural areas and national parks
    4. trips to hardware and landscape supplies
    5. picking up international business visitors from airport/hotel
    6. customer site visits at mines, treatment plants, construction sites and chemical plants
    7. Shops, restaurants and general running around.
    8. I like quirky and interesting vehicles only.
    9. Has to look good not round and bland.
    10. Needed to have a bull bar and driving light capability.
    11. Wanted a wagon not a UTE
  4. I spent two years test driving all sorts of vehicles and could not find a single one that met most of these needs, until I found the Grenadier on YouTube in February this year.
    1. Landcruiser/Prado - excellent vehicles but as exciting as the midday news.
    2. Landrover new Defender - I doubt will last 10 years let alone 20 and too much electronics and gismo's
    3. Jeep Wrangler/Gladiator- poor build quality, on road performance, safety rating and reliability that Jeep will stay in Australia
    4. Mercedes - GLC/GLE/G Wagon - too expensive and can't do any offroad in reality
    5. BMW same as MB
    6. Old Defender - seriously considered until the prices went stupid.
    7. Grenadier - seems to meet most/all of my requirements
I went through the same exercise and came to the same answer. I added in Toyota 70 series but only in manual and you can't order them now.
 

rovie

Contributor
Contract Signed
Joined
May 19, 2022
Messages
376
Reaction score
362
Read a paper online from Bentley motors. The outcome was that lubricant was not a good idea on wheel studs. My empirical experience over 45 years motoring whereby I always used CopperSlip has so far never involved loss of a wheel or further torquing between services.
That said I don’t doubt the science regarding clean / dry surfaces being theoretically better.
I also use copper paste. That's what you learned in the past and it doesn't hurt. However, not in combination with aluminium rims!
 

DaveB

Very Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
1,663
Reaction score
1,842
Location
Gold Coast Australia
I went through the same exercise and came to the same answer. I added in Toyota 70 series but only in manual and you can't order them now.
I never took the 70 series seriously as an option because it isn't something I could live with daily without spending another $25,000 on to make it comfortable.
You shouldn't have to add your own sound proofing, suspension and creature comforts to a car that expensive.
 

Shaky

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Joined
Apr 28, 2022
Messages
283
Reaction score
286
I never took the 70 series seriously as an option because it isn't something I could live with daily without spending another $25,000 on to make it comfortable.
You shouldn't have to add your own sound proofing, suspension and creature comforts to a car that expensive.

Whilst a agree with you, the same can be said for the original series I, II, IIA, III, 90, 110, and most of the defender iterations.

My other half had a romantic notion of getting a defender a couple of years ago, having never driven one. I told her to forget it.
 

Tazzieman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
495
Reaction score
676
Location
Tasmania
Read a paper online from Bentley motors. The outcome was that lubricant was not a good idea on wheel studs. My empirical experience over 45 years motoring whereby I always used CopperSlip has so far never involved loss of a wheel or further torquing between services.
That said I don’t doubt the science regarding clean / dry surfaces being theoretically better.
My experience from owning old land Rovers as well as Benzes and Porsches (much better metallurgy), If you buy a 2nd hand car where someone has bothered to clean the threads,
it's very likely someone will have used a wire brush , thus removing the bolt coating.
A recipe for corrosion and seizing.
Sooner or later someone will pop some grease/antiseize on.
I've never had a loose wheel bolt situation and I haven't always used a torque wrench.
If you buy a new car and religiously care for it and never drive in salty water etc , well that is the perfect world of textbooks.
 
Top Bottom