Should I ? - Wheels

[Michael H.]

Hi

I have answered this several times and each time slightly differently.

1. I am about to turn 60 and I am looking for a new car that will last me 20 years
2. I will be moving to the country by the sea in January 2023
3. The new vehicle needs to meet a wide range of needs such as
   1. long drives on the highway and back roads
   2. Visits to Fraser island driving on the sand
   3. gravel and dirt roads in the country, rural areas and national parks
   4. trips to hardware and landscape supplies
   5. picking up international business visitors from airport/hotel
   6. customer site visits at mines, treatment plants, construction sites and chemical plants
   7. Shops, restaurants and general running around.
   8. I like quirky and interesting vehicles only.
   9. Has to look good not round and bland.
   10. Needed to have a bull bar and driving light capability.
   11. Wanted a wagon not a UTE
4. I spent two years test driving all sorts of vehicles and could not find a single one that met most of these needs, until I found the Grenadier on YouTube in February this year.
   1. Landcruiser/Prado - excellent vehicles but as exciting as the midday news.
   2. Landrover new Defender - I doubt will last 10 years let alone 20 and too much electronics and gismo's
   3. Jeep Wrangler/Gladiator- poor build quality, on road performance, safety rating and reliability that Jeep will stay in Australia
   4. Mercedes - GLC/GLE/G Wagon - too expensive and can't do any offroad in reality
   5. BMW same as MB
   6. Old Defender - seriously considered until the prices went stupid.
   7. Grenadier - seems to meet most/all of my requirements

Thank you Dave for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive answer. The reason I asked was that, as someone who does a fair amount of serious off-roading, I’m not at all concerned with any potential compromises in on road comfort and handling that the Grenadier might have. It sounds like you’re not expecting these things to be an issue, and fingers crossed they’re not. My current vehicle is a well set up Toyota Fortuner, which ticks most of the boxes for me. The reason I’ve ordered a Grenadier is that I’m after a more rugged and capable off roader. I'm in my early 60s, and hopefully this will be my last purchase. I was very disappointed when the new Defender came out, because it was not at all what I wanted. The Grenadier should be a perfect fit for me, and I hope it's a perfect fit for you too.

 

[DaveB]

Thank you Dave for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive answer. The reason I asked was that, as someone who does a fair amount of serious off-roading, I’m not at all concerned with any potential compromises in on road comfort and handling that the Grenadier might have. It sounds like you’re not expecting these things to be an issue, and fingers crossed they’re not. My current vehicle is a well set up Toyota Fortuner, which ticks most of the boxes for me. The reason I’ve ordered a Grenadier is that I’m after a more rugged and capable off roader. I'm in my early 60s, and hopefully this will be my last purchase. I was very disappointed when the new Defender came out, because it was not at all what I wanted. The Grenadier should be a perfect fit for me, and I hope it's a perfect fit for you too.

Part of the fun of this forum is finding out about the other owners, their plans, configuration choices and mindsets relating to the vehicle.
Having to play detective to find out details on the vehicle and specifications is part of the fun.
In a couple of months time we will start to get flooded with reviews of the actual production vehicles by people taking delivery and journalists etc.
Hopefully after that the forum members will start to share their experiences and travels, along with their modifications and additions.

 

[DaveB]

There’s no guarantee that the grenadier will be more reliable and safer than wrangler/gladiator

Correct. But there is a guarantee that the Wrangler/Gladiator are unreliable and unsafe.
At least in Australia.
Chrysler has pulled out of Australia and while Jeep has stayed sales of less than 10,000 vehicles can't be at all interesting for the group.
I couldn't imaging driving one on tar roads for 8 hours, let alone corrugated dirt roads.

 

[Shopkeep]

The white lettering does break up the monotone look both on alloy and steel, interesting...happy motoring

I have been quietly loving the white lettering on the tyres as well. I have ordered a Trialmaster so coming with KO2s, I rarely leave the bitumen so thinking of either swapping out or buying another set of steelies and getting a more road biased tyre but still with a chunky side wall (probably Coopers) BUT still keeping the white lettering on the outside.....

 

[DaveB]

I have been quietly loving the white lettering on the tyres as well. I have ordered a Trialmaster so coming with KO2s, I rarely leave the bitumen so thinking of either swapping out or buying another set of steelies and getting a more road biased tyre but still with a chunky side wall (probably Coopers) BUT still keeping the white lettering on the outside.....

My understanding is the tyres come with white lettering on one side and black on the other so you can choose which way you prefer

 

[Shopkeep]

I stumbled across this interesting list of aftermarket wheel options in 6x130 PCD. Not sure is the offsets on all work with the Grenadier but its a start.

Collection of aftermarket Sprinter wheel options — sprntr.co

Looking for wheels for your Sprinter van? Here's a collection of wheels that fit the Sprinter van including the T1N, NVC3 and 907.

www.sprntr.co

 

[emax]

@DaveB
> I will be moving to the country by the sea in January 2023

That's a reason NOT to buy alloys. Salt everywhere.

 

[DaveB]

@DaveB
> I will be moving to the country by the sea in January 2023

That's a reason NOT to buy alloys. Salt everywhere.

The water is not very salty as it is tidal/brackish and we don't salt the roads.
I am going to ceramic coat the whole vehicle including the alloys.
Well I mean I am going to pay someone to do it

 

[ECrider]

I've gone for 17" steels. Will drive off-road 80pct Sept-Feb. More choice of off-road tyres, more rubber, bang out dents etc etc etc.

If I can't get a second set of 5 wheels from IG for a while then I'll speak to Compomotive here in the UK and see if they can knock anything up. Long shot.

 

[emax]

The water is not very salty as it is tidal/brackish and we don't salt the roads.

I don't know your location, of course. But on the coast, salt sprays for miles over land. I love photography a lot and thus I always have my camera(s) with me if at the seaside. It was interesting that the cameras and lenses always tasted salty (yes, I indeed tried with my tongue), even if I haden't taken out e.g. a particular lens close to the coast.

Maybe the coating will help. But we'll see in a few years.

 

[DaveB]

I don't know your location, of course. But on the coast, salt sprays for miles over land. I love photography a lot and thus I always have my camera(s) with me if at the seaside. It was interesting that the cameras and lenses always tasted salty (yes, I indeed tried with my tongue), even if I haden't taken out e.g. a particular lens close to the coast.

Maybe the coating will help. But we'll see in a few years.

It is on a tidal creek.
So when the tide is going out he water is fresh and almost no salt.
When it is coming back in the water is brackish, so salt but not heavy.
You can't smell salt
Have a look at the Grenadier Australia original video on Fraser Island

 

[Mtnranger]

I am not in a debate about safety or reliability but your choice is important to me as it is to you but I have chosen a Grenadier because it is super modern which I think will tick all the boxes I want to be ticked without any tricks, bells and whistles...happy motoring.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post accidentally

Correct. But there is a guarantee that the Wrangler/Gladiator are unreliable and unsafe.
At least in Australia.
Chrysler has pulled out of Australia and while Jeep has stayed sales of less than 10,000 vehicles can't be at all interesting for the group.
I couldn't imaging driving one on tar roads for 8 hours, let alone corrugated dirt roads.

When I was a kid, used to dream of getting a stick shift 2 door red jeep and when i was old enough to drive and buy one, I was convinced to not buy it due to all the reliability issues reported at the time. 2.5 years ago, I decided to get a bronco thinking ford might be more reliable than a jeep and it’s the only other off-roader with a stick shift. I still don’t have it after waiting 3 years but I closely follow the forums and the number of electrical and removable top issues is crazy. While waiting for the bronco, I decided to get a stick shift gladiator 2 year lease and it changed my opinion. The base engine pentastar is pretty old and proven. Even the automatic zf-8 is supposedly pretty reliable. The gearing for the stick shift is weird but it works. I got the Willy’s trim. It lacks most of the extra electronics— no blind spot monitor, no adaptive cruise control , no rain wipers etc. I had it for 1.5 years so far and put 10,000 miles on it so far and ~ 300 miles on dirt roads and it performed as expected. I don’t know if the shocks and springs will last as long as the grenadier will last on dirt roads supposedly, but at $42,000 gladiator vs estimated $70,000 grenadier, new or better suspension parts could be replaced quite often. I reserved the grenadier last year September 30 on the first day because it looked cool and was intrigued by its purpose to be reliable. Slowly over time, I am contemplating, if I truly want a proven reliable off-roader, maybe Toyota 4Runner is the better choice. If I want a stick shift as the priority, gladiator is the choice. If I want the looks, then it’s the grenadier. I’ve become super skeptical of new vehicle reliability because of the bronco rollout. I’m still latching on to the grenadier dream for now because it’s a unique vehicle in the states. I also see your point about Australia, if ineos is expected to grow its service centers and Jeep is expected to close its service centers, the choice is clear.

 

[Mtnranger]

That's not setting the bar very high though is it?

I mean I can’t come out and be like a British car made by French people in a German factory for the first time is expected to be as reliable as a Japanese vehicle designed with 25 year lifespan and long proven history (Land Cruiser if I want to set the bar high). Hope to be proven wrong though, especially if I end up getting one.

 

[OGrid]

It is on a tidal creek.
So when the tide is going out he water is fresh and almost no salt.
When it is coming back in the water is brackish, so salt but not heavy.
You can't smell salt
Have a look at the Grenadier Australia original video on Fraser Island

Wow, so close to Fraser. An amazing island and location.

 

[Shaky]

I am still undecided where to go with the wheel situation. Alloys wheels are lighter and not as strong but I don’t intend doing any rock crawling or real heavy duty off roading.

The point about the lacquer on alloys is a good point however, they might pit and degrade but salt will also make steel wheels rust faster. So it’s a trade off.

The difference is the quality of the wheels, Nissan alloys used to look 5yrs old after 12 months. I have in the past had alloys that were knackered medium blasted and powder coated and it cost me £50 per corner.

Having had steel wheels on a 4x4 after three years they also could have benefited from having the same treatment.

I will admit that you can hammer a dent out of a steel wheel but you can‘t hammer a crack out of an alloy !!

I used to like the idea of the stripped back utilitarian look of the steels but I now like the look of the more grown up alloy look as well.

 

[mkennedy009]

Yes, plus we must remember the old saying
The man who dies with the most/best toys wins.
Not sure what the prize is but...........

The prize is your heir gets to figure out how start a car that has not run in 20 years, has varnish in the tank and carbs and all the rubber was eaten by the alcohol some environmental engineer decided was a good idea to put in fuel.

 

[DaveB]

I mean I can’t come out and be like a British car made by French people in a German factory for the first time is expected to be as reliable as a Japanese vehicle designed with 25 year lifespan and long proven history (Land Cruiser if I want to set the bar high). Hope to be proven wrong though, especially if I end up getting one.

Like many people on here I have owned a lot of different vehicles over the years. I accepted, notchy gearboxes, a variety of clutches, noise, vibration, flapping soft tops, suspension that was different every time you got in and just accepted it. The first time I drove a Subaru it was a massive improvement in every area. I had stepped up from a $40K vehicle to a $55K so I expected an improvement. Then I changed to a Mercedes $92K and it was a whole new world of quality, handling, service and experience. This was the entry level of Mercedes. Test driving a Jeep after that was never going to deliver a good result. Despite the fact the Jeep was $75K the experience was below a Subaru. The dealer experience was even worse. I ended up looking at an MB GLE and because I like quirky vehicles I aimed towards the GLE Coupe. It was $120K at the time. (2020). Totally impractical and didn't meet half my requirements. By 2021 it had gone up to $150K, now you couldn't get one for that price second hand.
A 70 series Landcruiser is a serious 4WD but the driving experience on road is terrible. Not all that different to a Jeep.

 

[Shaky]

The prize is your heir gets to figure out how start a car that has not run in 20 years, has varnish in the tank and carbs and all the rubber was eaten by the alcohol some environmental engineer decided was a good idea to put in fuel

Like many people on here I have owned a lot of different vehicles over the years. I accepted, notchy gearboxes, a variety of clutches, noise, vibration, flapping soft tops, suspension that was different every time you got in and just accepted it. The first time I drove a Subaru it was a massive improvement in every area. I had stepped up from a $40K vehicle to a $55K so I expected an improvement. Then I changed to a Mercedes $92K and it was a whole new world of quality, handling, service and experience. This was the entry level of Mercedes. Test driving a Jeep after that was never going to deliver a good result. Despite the fact the Jeep was $75K the experience was below a Subaru. The dealer experience was even worse. I ended up looking at an MB GLE and because I like quirky vehicles I aimed towards the GLE Coupe. It was $120K at the time. (2020). Totally impractical and didn't meet half my requirements. By 2021 it had gone up to $150K, now you couldn't get one for that price second hand.
A 70 series Landcruiser is a serious 4WD but the driving experience on road is terrible. Not all that different to a Jeep.

Well that is something the Landcruiser 70 series certainly have in common with the original Defender then.

I certainly love both vehicles, but probably the best thing about both of them is how they look over how they drive.

 

[Mtnranger]

I am still undecided where to go with the wheel situation. Alloys wheels are lighter and not as strong but I don’t intend doing any rock crawling or real heavy duty off roading.

The point about the lacquer on alloys is a good point however, they might pit and degrade but salt will also make steel wheels rust faster. So it’s a trade off.

The difference is the quality of the wheels, Nissan alloys used to look 5yrs old after 12 months. I have in the past had alloys that were knackered medium blasted and powder coated and it cost me £50 per corner.

Having had steel wheels on a 4x4 after three years they also could have benefited from having the same treatment.

I will admit that you can hammer a dent out of a steel wheel but you can‘t hammer a crack out of an alloy !!

I used to like the idea of the stripped back utilitarian look of the steels but I now like the look of the more grown up alloy look as well.

Get alloys and if they really go bad in couple years, then you can get steelies

 

[Max]

Get alloys and if they really go bad in couple years, then you can get steelies

Steel vs Alloy. It is interesting about warranties, the chassis/ladder frame is twelve years and as we know salt is used in the UK/EU. Do wheels have the same treatment and the same amount of rocks and salt as the ladder frame thrown at them? This is just dirt road and bitumen driving that I am questioning and I would say no. The rear wheels have more issues but with rotation, things even out, it would be interesting to know the process of protection on the wheels and whether it is anywhere as durable as the undercarriage. It would be in Ineos's interest not to look drab after only a couple of years...happy motoring