Quartermaster Failed Driveshaft - Be Aware

[MileHigh]

Inches, angles, blah, blah. Can barely fit the stock one in my garage…. Let alone getting my old, fat ass into the thing. I did just raise my seat from the bottom position, so I FEEL higher…

 

[TCMColorado]

Why a 4” lift for 35” tires? Two inches is sufficient and will have less impact on the driveline, suspension components and steering.

 

[Commodore]

I test drove their Ineos with the 4 inch lift and 35's before signing off on the build.

I have a lifted '05 LJ Rubicon and a lifted '22 Sprinter 170. (Kings on both)

Here's their data on the CV joint tolerance.

Ineos CV Joint Information

Ineos CV Join information for the Grenadier and Quartermaster in offroad applications with lift kits.

ready.owlvans.com

"The Maximum continuous operating angle for a Rzeppa (receptor- style) CV joint on a driveshaft is typically around 22 to 24 degrees for continuous use. 45 to 50 degrees for temporary articulation, like in suspension travel or steering (but not constant rotation). For durability and to avoid vibration, heat, or premature wear, it’s ideal to keep continuous operating angles under 22 degrees."

"Grenadier 4.0” lift is 13 degrees at the pinion CV joint."

If the lift on the Ineos becomes an issue then I'll take it to Agile. They're selling custom front and rear drive shafts. ( https://agileoffroad.com/product/heavy-duty-front-drive-shaft-for-ineos-grenadier-by-agile-offroad/ )

I'm also assuming that with the Quartermaster being new there will be continued development by aftermarket companies until they get the lift dialed in.

Pinion side isn’t the issue… it’s the t case side and that is a very real problem. Those of us here with experience with our Grenadiers are telling you that a 4” lift is going to eat CV’s. It isn’t what you want to hear but it is a fact. Also a driveshaft with 1350 u joints is already operation past functional angles at stock night and has a highway vibration. At a 4” lift it won’t live long. I get that this isn’t what you want to hear but it’s the truth.

BTW you can fit 35” tires on a stock suspension. Start there and see if you really need a lift for the trails you are going on.

 

[Dokatd]

It's not the Rzeppa joint itself that fails. The Rzeppa is well suited for the higher angles. ITS THE BOOT, THE BOOT STYLE AND SURROUNDING COLLAR ARE THE PROBLEM. And that's completely ignoring the absolute horrible geometry 4" of lift would give you on both front and back axles. Hell, the geometry of both are terrible in stock form. It only gets worse with lift. Develop a long arm kit and things start to make sense.

 

[Brock63]

On my Land Cruisers.....never had a driveshaft fail unless it was already at max spec. Did have short axles (CV Axles) fail but adding a billet spacer up front stopped those issues.

 

[EnduroScout]

rides fine to me...

 

[C-Mack]

Looks like a cool ride… maybe take some close up pictures of the two front CV-joints now you have the lift just for reference and share with the group. Please keep us informed as to how it performs and if you run into any issues and at what mileage after the lift. Fingers crossed it all works out fine time/mileage will tell for sure.

 

[Rocky]

Very good look! What size tires did you end up with? Are those 315/70r17’s?

 

[Bobcat Sig]

I just dropped of my Quartermaster for a 4 inch lift & 35's at Owl Vans. Owl hasn't done me wrong yet.

I don't see any reason why the lift should cause failure. There are enough stock vehicles having problems - can't blame the lift/tires at this point if there is a problem.

Very good look! What size tires did you end up with? Are those 315/70r17’s?

 

[EnduroScout]

Here are the images of the front drive shaft.

I had a call with Agile off-road road today. They’re want to get my truck in the shop for a day with their engineer. I think there is a lot of optimism about finding a solution for the issue ppl have experienced. It’s only a matter of time before it’s solved.

The trucks amazing. I know that being an early adopter comes with some risk. If I wasn’t game for that I would have bought something else.

 

[Dokatd]

So they loosened the diff side and not the t-case side. Good you have evidence they actually disconnected it. But that's most certainly pushing the limits of what's functional on the T-case cv housing. Curious how much room you have left on your shocks.

 

[TCMColorado]

Regardless of the effect on the drive shaft, the amount of suspension droop still available is greatly reduced and will negatively impact off road performance. Without increasing shock length this is unavoidable.

 

[C-Mack]

Ouchy… the CV’s might be alright at those angles but long term running like that will shorten their lives a bit. More concerning, and what everyone is pointing out, is the shroud and boot are basically at their max even at resting height. The rubber will go through rapid flexing cycles as the shaft spins then fatigue and split open followed by the slow demise of the joint itself as it becomes contaminated.

Curious what Agile engineers will propose? I don’t think their single cardan driveshafts are the solution either especially if you are wanting it to run smooth at highway speeds. Neither the transfer case output or diff flange sit at the correct matching angles to cancel out the natural oscillations cardan joints create especially at increased angles so it will never run totally smooth on the Grenadier at the front especially. It’ll introduce a resonance or vibration into the rest of the driveline and that just adds to the long term wear considerations as the next weak link in the chain takes the abuse so-to-speak.

Everyone in the forum is here to help and all want to see these kind of issues resolved so we’ll tag along with you and see how it goes so keep the group informed.

 

[Tazzieman]

The clearance does look marginal.
The other potential is for a stone/piece of sharp gravel to get caught in the TC boot area.
Whether on a rocky trail or driving through a creek/river.

 

[Commodore]

Here are the images of the front drive shaft.

I had a call with Agile off-road road today. They’re want to get my truck in the shop for a day with their engineer. I think there is a lot of optimism about finding a solution for the issue ppl have experienced. It’s only a matter of time before it’s solved.

The trucks amazing. I know that being an early adopter comes with some risk. If I wasn’t game for that I would have bought something else.
View attachment 7905278

Those boots aren’t going to make it long. Not sure what OWL is thinking by selling that lift. Doesn’t matter how much care they took when installing. The CV internals are going to be fine until the boot tears and dumps all the grease out. You best carry a spare CV and the tools to change it because it will 100% fail.

BTW: John at Agile is a great guy and really knows what he is doing. He has been working on a driveshaft solution for at least a year now. His current offering runs 1350 u joints at high than recommended angles when running a 2” lift. It is going to be way past continuous operating limits when run on a 4” lift. It will have some vibration on the highway and require u joint service.

What you have is a great looking rig for cars and coffee. Fine if it is just a low mileage show car.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Not sure what OWL is thinking by selling that lift.

It's clear to me.


$$$$

 

[Commodore]

It's clear to me.


$$$$

Yup, lost a lot of respect for them because of this offering.

 

[parb]

It's clear to me.


$$$$

What do you expect. They took private equity money.