Power steering noise

[Eric.S.]

Hello everyone I was finally able to pick up my grenadier yesterday Unfortunately, I noticed at home that my power steering makes a strange noise. I think it's not a normal noise, or? The filling level in the container was at maximum with the engine warm but switched off. The German instructions do not say exactly in which condition the oil should be checked. Does anyone have an idea? I tried to post a video but I always see the file is too big (7mb)
Thank you

 

[255/85]

Centering isn't as critical on Yota and rover because the CV joint is centric on the wheel spindle via a bearing or bushing depending on specific build. The CV joint is in a sealed knuckle or swivel ball. The Grenadier has an open design with a Double Cardan. This requires the shaft be fixed or centered on both sides of the joint. I have already seen gauled shafts on Grenadiers.

I disagree - in part. Because the inner axle on Toyota front ends is sealed at the outboard end (and bushed) there's no room for offset at the other side of birfield. Everything has to be kept in perfect alignment. 90wt is kept in the axle housing and grease is isolated inside the ball by the seal I posted a link to. Dana axles, for example, are sealed just outboard of the diff and a royal pain to replace. But they don't fail often because there's no play so close to the differential side gears.

When I look at the image that @Logsplitter posted it looks like the Carraro axles are also sealed at the outboard end just like Toyota stuff. I can't tell for certain. It would be cool if they are because the third member isn't removable as with Toyota.

Expect future version of the Grenadier to come with a redesigned axle with CV's someday. To be fair I like the Cararro axle, I just don't think it's going to win over the masses and is expensive as compared to more traditional road going vehicles like Rovers and Yotas.

I'm in no way opposed to improvements. Here in the US we'd all probably prefer a Dana 60. I get that. But I'm not always happy with closed knuckle designs despite their resistance to dirt and debris entry. The problem for me with them is that you can't tell what's going on until the things are fairly well advanced so I'm not wishing for that either.

I'd like to live with the Carraro front end long enough to know how it fares. It could prove to be outstanding. It sure looks strong. Galling would be a metallurgical problem easily corrected with a minor materials change - not a total redesign.

 

[255/85]

Man, we're n the weeds now. I'm off to see Spinal Tap. Cheers!

 

[Dokatd]

I disagree - in part. Because the inner axle on Toyota front ends is sealed at the outboard end (and bushed) there's no room for offset at the other side of birfield. Everything has to be kept in perfect alignment. 90wt is kept in the axle housing and grease is isolated inside the ball by the seal I posted a link to. Dana axles, for example, are sealed just outboard of the diff and a royal pain to replace. But they don't fail often because there's no play so close to the differential side gears.

When I look at the image that @Logsplitter posted it looks like the Carraro axles are also sealed at the outboard end just like Toyota stuff. I can't tell for certain. It would be cool if they are because the third member isn't removable as with Toyota.



I'm in no way opposed to improvements. Here in the US we'd all probably prefer a Dana 60. I get that. But I'm not always happy with closed knuckle designs despite their resistance to dirt and debris entry. The problem for me with them is that you can't tell what's going on until the things are fairly well advanced so I'm not wishing for that either.

I'd like to live with the Carraro front end long enough to know how it fares. It could prove to be outstanding. It sure looks strong. Galling would be a metallurgical problem easily corrected with a minor materials change - not a total redesign.

Gauling in this case appeared to be due to misalignment. There is a huge bushing and seal on the axle side of the knuckle. Any misalignment will cause the shaft and bushing to fail.

And as for Yotas, same design as Rovers more or less. The axle seal is at the end of the tube. We often removed them and converted back to old school oil in both the axle and swivel balls, even removed the inner seals. Rover only introduced grease in the swivels to the USA in the 90's round about. They were damn proud of their one shot grease packets. I know all this because I was there and a tech at the time. Best I recall was because the oil leaked to easily. Anyways, the inner seals on the rover and yota have a huge allowance for misalignment in relative terms. They have to so that the seal holds up when the axles flex under max loads. I assume you realize your yota axles bend a bit when loaded right. That's partially why Yotas were trussed a bit to reduce this and help with leaking axles.

When I built axles professionally I used huge alignment bars that were 1.5" thick. You could easily slide the bar from one spindle end to the other without any interference, smooth as silk. But man if I used the wrong kind of seal at the ends of the tubes I would hear about it from customers. I learned that lesson quick. Axles flex far more than you can imagine.

 

[Dlucky]

My '97 Land Cruiser lifted on 37s with a brand new OEM pump and OEM steering box steers like a 911 compared to my new IG. The IG has zero excuse for the slow return to center, wider turning radius and movie car steering corrections when a nearly 30 year old truck can do everything better in the steering dept.

My local Pasadena dealer service rep told me the squeal needs to exceed 90 db to be considered for a warranty replacement, but even then there are no guarantees that the new pump will be silent.

I conjecture that IA knows there is no fix except to go back to the supplier and ask for an entirely new de$ign. This is why they're dragging knuckles at our expense.

I've come to accept it (begrudgingly) because I'm not dropping $3K on a new pump plus labor to end up back at square one. I'll give the min level cold a try because max level cold made zero difference on mine. There's split bro forum science here whether high or low fluid level will actually eliminate squeal. Make up your mind internet. lol

Let's keep this thread going with more owners voicing their displeasure. Rock on!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/T4atrIgFlg8

Pasadena dealership said the MY25 have a different part number for the power steering pumps and are much quieter, and the parts won’t work in THE MY24 trucks.

 

[Krabby]

Pasadena dealership said the MY25 have a different part number for the power steering pumps and are much quieter, and the parts won’t work in THE MY24 trucks.

We have owners here w MY 2025s with the whine no different. Not sure where they’re getting that info from.

 

[OkGo]

A 1924 parked at a dealer, yesterday, had the whine. Not been sold yet.

 

[ADVAW8S]

This morning, the temp was 55 and my PS fluid sits right above the min line. I am a lucky one with already less noticable whine. Today almost non existent in terms of sound. We talk about the pressure and how the pressure build up may contribute to the electric motor needing to do more work. I wonder if with cool temps will people hear a quieter whine now.

 

[Skydance]

This morning, the temp was 55 and my PS fluid sits right above the min line. I am a lucky one with already less noticable whine. Today almost non existent in terms of sound. We talk about the pressure and how the pressure build up may contribute to the electric motor needing to do more work. I wonder if with cool temps will people hear a quieter whine now.

I confirm yes it does. Also tyre pressures should be at 36 psi (unloaded, cold) and the steering feel and weight is perfect. No need for a fancy steering damper.

Not many people believe this, everyone else thinks we’re talking nonsense because we don’t have the science to back it up but I have a bottle of BMW steering fluid and been experimenting. If you fill upto max and even slightly above. I can hear it whining from around the block and the steering is so heavy especially in hot weather. The whining doesn’t bother me so much, it’s the 10 point turns which bothers me and my Mrs.

The steering reservoir doesn’t have a return pipe just one pipe so it’s slightly different than conventional ones. Some have tried it, It works for some and not for others

 

[Tazzieman]

. If you fill upto max and even slightly above. I can hear it whining

Do you fill it when the engine is hot or cold?

 

[Skydance]

Do you fill it when the engine is hot or cold?

Always cold. So early morning, use a turkey baster or large syringe to take out some fluid out, level with minimum. Use a towel to wipe the indicator level on the cap to get it accurate.

Tyres ideally 36psi cold if it’s not laden. 38 to 40psi if full rack on top.

If it’s doesn’t work, get some Fuchs Titan for formerly Pentosin CHF11S (from Amazon) and put it back in.

I hope it works for you.

 

[Tazzieman]

Always cold. So early morning, use a turkey baster or large syringe to take out some fluid out, level with minimum. Use a towel to wipe the indicator level on the cap to get it accurate.

Tyres ideally 36psi cold if it’s not laden. 38 to 40psi if full rack on top.

If it’s doesn’t work, get some Fuchs Titan for formerly Pentosin CHF11S (from Amazon) and put it back in.

I hope it works for you.

I don't have any PS noise. Just checking your method as these things vary!
My old 911 oil level is checked with the engine warmed up and running ; the old Benz auto trans in a similar way.
The owner manual should always state these things in plain English. Or French if that's where you're from, etc

 

[Skydance]

I don't have any PS noise. Just checking your method as these things vary!
My old 911 oil level is checked with the engine warmed up and running ; the old Benz auto trans in a similar way.
The owner manual should always state these things in plain English. Or French if that's where you're from, etc

If you don’t have any PS noise then I would not change a thing. How’s the steering then? Light or very heavy? Does it feel like a 911 around corners or a boat?

 

[Tazzieman]

If you don’t have any PS noise then I would not change a thing. How’s the steering then? Light or very heavy? Does it feel like a 911 around corners or a boat?

It feels like a solid axle 3 tonne 4wd!
And reminds me of the solid, tight, built like a tank vibe of my Porsche 928. Which has a lump up front, unlike the featherweight old 911!
Honestly I'm perfectly happy with the Grenadier's steering.
If I feel the need to go really fast around corners, I get behind the wheel of something else

 

[GreenGrena]

Update and ...brining us back to the PSP noise (which is the title of this thread...). My PSP whistle seems to get louder by the week. Just hit 5,500 miles on the clock.

Good news is that I was told by the INEOS Arrowhead - Peoria AZ service manager on 9/9 that my PSP remove/replace was approved and that the new part has been ordered. Still waiting to hear about availability and booking to get the install done. Tick tock....

Lots of chatter here and anecdotal stuff about how other MY 2024 pump replacements didn't fix the squeal, or MY2025 uses a different pump PN and is not backward compatible with MY 2024, etc. I am keeping an open mind and trust that the mfg has a suitable fix! Will wait and see and for sure will post a vid or two post-repairs.. Since I have heard plenty of MY 2024s and 2025s that are waaaaaaaaaaay quieter than mine, I am confident we can get this handled or at least down to a comparable low level whistle/squeal to be in line with the quieter "normal" condition. TBH, neither my wife nor I remember ours being this loud during the test drive we took on the sale day, otherwise probably would have gone for a different IG on the same lot without the tea kettle sound effect option. Like I said above, seems to be getting louder as time goes on. More to come.

 

[Dlucky]

Update and ...brining us back to the PSP noise (which is the title of this thread...). My PSP whistle seems to get louder by the week. Just hit 5,500 miles on the clock.

Good news is that I was told by the INEOS Arrowhead - Peoria AZ service manager on 9/9 that my PSP remove/replace was approved and that the new part has been ordered. Still waiting to hear about availability and booking to get the install done. Tick tock....

Lots of chatter here and anecdotal stuff about how other MY 2024 pump replacements didn't fix the squeal, or MY2025 uses a different pump PN and is not backward compatible with MY 2024, etc. I am keeping an open mind and trust that the mfg has a suitable fix! Will wait and see and for sure will post a vid or two post-repairs.. Since I have heard plenty of MY 2024s and 2025s that are waaaaaaaaaaay quieter than mine, I am confident we can get this handled or at least down to a comparable low level whistle/squeal to be in line with the quieter "normal" condition. TBH, neither my wife nor I remember ours being this loud during the test drive we took on the sale day, otherwise probably would have gone for a different IG on the same lot without the tea kettle sound effect option. Like I said above, seems to be getting louder as time goes on. More to come.

Keep us all posted, this could be a great for those of us with extremely loud PSP’s

 

[GreenGrena]

Keep us all posted, this could be a great for those of us with extremely loud PSP’s

Yes, will keep you posted.

To be clear.... we LOVE LOVE LOVE the vehicle apart from this noisy PSP issue. Like other proud owners, I've done my own tweaking to set it up exactly how I like it, which according to what I heard from the informative and candid Lynn Calder podcast, was a deliberate part of the packages and design intent offered by INEOS. I've added a Leitner full roof rack, Owl Mojo wheels, larger BFG tires, King steering stabilizer, audio upgrades, Homelink, full body PPF stealth wrap and a few other lower cost goodies. So I am not afraid of dumping some additional $$ at the car to set it up it as I like and fully intend to keep it a long time. Once we get this PSP issue handled I (like the car) will stop whining and join the other posters sharing and learning info that will hopefully help the community!

Also, I certainly am not throwing shade on my local dealer (Arrowhead in Peoria AZ). They have been great to work with from the sale, software upgrades, and through a few other items.