Please send me your old ZF transmission pan and filter

[scottg]

Having researched the Grenadier's ZF pan and filter, we have a 2 uptake port filter, one that is used on BMW mild hybrids and it appears any vehicles with engine start/stop. The 2nd port's purpose is to maintain transmission fluid pressure during engine stop, and on mild hybrids, when the transmission is disconnected from the engine during coast. The 2nd port is operated via an electrical motor so that pressure is maintained to ensure the ZF is ready to go at a moment's notice after coast & start/stop, which is different than when starting the engine before a drive.

Some of us would like to replace the plastic pans with aluminum pans, but no manufacturers yet support the 2nd uptake port filter.

Sending me your pans and filters when you do your service will help provide a supply we can use to send to manufacturers to hopefully get these 2 uptake-port filters supported in aluminum and perhaps other pans, as well as helping identify BMW 2-uptake port filters that are compatible with the Grenadiers. Not only that, we may help all BMW mild-hybrid and engine start/stop owners who may also want aluminum or other types of pans for their vehicles.

Diesel and Petrol both, please. And if you would, please send me your VIN as well. I won't publish or share these but they may be helpful if we find differences in pans between models or engine types.

If your transmission is being serviced by an INEOS dealer, tell them you want all replaced parts provided back to you so it doesn't get tossed. This is a common request, I do it for all service on any vehicle so I can inspect the replaced items.

Ideally you would donate by paying shipping, but if that's not for you, contact me directly and based on the flood of pans I do or don't have on the way, or your distance around the world from me, I can decide if it's worth me paying shipping through reimbursing you. Happy to do that if I can.

scott@scottg.net -- put "Grenadier ZF pan" in the subject line.

Appreciate the assistance, no guarantee we'll get traction with vendors but at least they won't be able to say they have no examples to use for re-designing their pans. You can send the gaskets and screws too if you like, but you don't have to clean the pans or filters, though thorough draining would be appreciated

If I get a deluge of pans and filters, I'll repost here to let all know we have plenty of pans and filters.

Much appreciated.

/s.

 

[Tom D]

So does this mean that there is a way of putting the gearbox into Neutral electronically with the engine off? That would be very useful ..

 

[scottg]

So does this mean that there is a way of putting the gearbox into Neutral electronically with the engine off? That would be very useful ..

Based on my research and testing, and I'm in no way an expert on this, SO DO NOT USE THIS INFORMATION TO WRECK YOUR GRENADIER -- I disclaim any warranty that this information is correct in any way. There.

EDIT: If there are any errors in my descriptions, would love them pointed to so I can correct them.

Now:

1. The engine is connected to the transmission is connected to the transfer case is connect to the drive shafts.

2. If you turn the wheels, you turn the drive shafts, which turns the transfer case gears, which turns the ZF transmission.

3. To safely tow, drag, push the Grenadier, the ZF must be in neutral *OR* the transfer case must be in neutral. The ZF transmission is what must not be manually turned in any way while it is set to Park.

4. When the ZF is in neutral, the transmission is connected to the drive shafts through the transfer case, and the wheels will turn the transmission (which obviously is why if the ZF is in Park, it'll be damaged).

5. When the transfer case is in neutral, the drive shafts ARE NOT connected to the transmission via the transfer case, so towing or pushing the Grenadier makes the wheels turn, and the drive shafts turn, but the transfer case gears do not turn, or the transfer case gear connected to the ZF does not turn, so the ZF transmission even in Park is not turned and no damage occurs.

6. The ZF transmission requires 12V(?) power to shift out of Park to any other selection, including neutral, and the engine must be running.

7. The ZF does have power when the Grenadier is in accessory mode, but I could not get the ZF to shift out of Park no matter what I did (kept brake depressed, pressed unlock, unlock + park buttons, stuck my finger in my ear ...), so you really do need a running engine to shift the ZF out of Park and into any other gear.

8. In accessory mode, I was able to shift the transfer case into all modes -- H, L, H-lock, L-lock -- and the telltale cluster lit up properly showing me what mode I was in and what systems were unavailable in these modes.

9. SURPRISE: After some wiggling between H / L, the transfer case went into NEUTRAL(!) Picture attached. This would not work with a locked transfer case, just between H and L.

Lifting the collar and moving the transfer case shifter in between H and L does cause the transfer case to go into neutral, but not reliably as there is no clear feel or indication that I've put the shifter into the right spot -- the collar does not drop, I couldn't feel it in any way when it did indicate it was in neutral. So I would not advise using this technique unless your vehicle is in water, you MUST move it, and you cannot get underneath it.

Although I was able to get the transfer case into neutral twice, it really felt like a 'hack' -- it took a while to get it to go into neutral, I had no idea when it would tell me it was in neutral, I had to let it sit in between H and L for a few seconds before the console indicated it was in neutral. Neutral is not a 'provided' setting, it really seems to be a hack, it took a lot of jiggling the transfer case shifter to get it in between H and L to where I'd get the console message that the transfer case was in neutral, and it wasn't very easy and doesn't seem like it's a made for setting.

I do not know if this would work without power, it probably would since the transfer case shifter is mechanical and not electronic, but you'd have no indicator whether your transfer case really was in neutral or not without power to the console and ECM.

If you do get your transfer case into neutral, because the collar does not drop, there seems to be no way to lock it into neutral, and any movement or accidentally contacting the transfer case shifter could take it back out of neutral.

Car wash mode is another possibility (it's in your manual, mine is on page 137) -- with engine running you put your ZF in neutral, shut off the engine and *immediately* put the ignition into ACC mode -- the ZF will stay in neutral that way, but will switch to park after some number of minutes, which is not identified in the manual. I'll test that next time I'm out and about. I'm not keen on using this method without knowing how long it'll last, and ideally with a countdown time on the console so I know when it's going to shift back into Park. I wash my Grenadier myself, regularly, and never use car washes.

It seems to me that there's a good case to be made for modifying the transfer case and its shifter to enable a neutral mode in between H and L, where the collar would drop and set it into a confirmed safe neutral position so you would not have to rely on the console to tell you it's in neutral, and so you would not have to get underneath to manually set the ZF to neutral. There may be good reason why this is not implemented for our transfer cases.

It also seems ZF could modify their transmissions (or maybe this can be added without modification through a signal to the ZF) to go into neutral and stay there, while the engine is off, but this would only work as long as it has power. Perhaps a secondary battery, one that can be charged during driving, that is smaller, just enough to power the ZF could be used to provide power to it when the vehicle power cannot. Again, not an expert here, so maybe there's good reason it cannot be, or an extra battery capability would be too costly and complex.

/s.

 

[scottg]

The more I think about this, the more I wonder, why not a neutral setting for the transfer case? I mean, I got it into neutral twice. The ECM recognizes neutral for the transfer case, and the console notifies that the transfer case is in neutral, so it is a valid state for the transfer case to be in. None of that would be there if the ECM codings and transfer case were not communicating a neutral status. So why not a stop-and-drop-the-collar and an "N" position on the transfer case?

 

[Dokatd]

Do not use the diff H/L shifter to put your T-case in neutral and move the truck at any speed. It's fine for rolling the truck in the shop which I have done on many Grenadiers in my shop so far. But the neutral gate is very narrow and you will grind the shift collar on either the high or low gear splines.

It's also fine for recovery emergencies but again keep rolling speed of the truck to a minimum.

I understand there is a selector under the truck in the T-case to set it in true neutral. But I haven't actually looked for it.

Also, you have to be sure if flat towing that the center diff won't mess with the front axles steering. Often you can get binding in turns that cause the front to steer opposite the direction of the tow vehicle. I had to remove the front shaft on my D90 to flat tow it safely.

These trucks can get goofy flat towing.

 

[Rok_Dr]

Based on my research and testing, and I'm in no way an expert on this, SO DO NOT USE THIS INFORMATION TO WRECK YOUR GRENADIER -- I disclaim any warranty that this information is correct in any way. There.

EDIT: If there are any errors in my descriptions, would love them pointed to so I can correct them.

Now:

1. The engine is connected to the transmission is connected to the transfer case is connect to the drive shafts.

2. If you turn the wheels, you turn the drive shafts, which turns the transfer case gears, which turns the ZF transmission.

3. To safely tow, drag, push the Grenadier, the ZF must be in neutral *OR* the transfer case must be in neutral. The ZF transmission is what must not be manually turned in any way while it is set to Park.

4. When the ZF is in neutral, the transmission is connected to the drive shafts through the transfer case, and the wheels will turn the transmission (which obviously is why if the ZF is in Park, it'll be damaged).

5. When the transfer case is in neutral, the drive shafts ARE NOT connected to the transmission via the transfer case, so towing or pushing the Grenadier makes the wheels turn, and the drive shafts turn, but the transfer case gears do not turn, or the transfer case gear connected to the ZF does not turn, so the ZF transmission even in Park is not turned and no damage occurs.

6. The ZF transmission requires 12V(?) power to shift out of Park to any other selection, including neutral, and the engine must be running.

7. The ZF does have power when the Grenadier is in accessory mode, but I could not get the ZF to shift out of Park no matter what I did (kept brake depressed, pressed unlock, unlock + park buttons, stuck my finger in my ear ...), so you really do need a running engine to shift the ZF out of Park and into any other gear.

8. In accessory mode, I was able to shift the transfer case into all modes -- H, L, H-lock, L-lock -- and the telltale cluster lit up properly showing me what mode I was in and what systems were unavailable in these modes.

9. SURPRISE: After some wiggling between H / L, the transfer case went into NEUTRAL(!) Picture attached. This would not work with a locked transfer case, just between H and L.

Lifting the collar and moving the transfer case shifter in between H and L does cause the transfer case to go into neutral, but not reliably as there is no clear feel or indication that I've put the shifter into the right spot -- the collar does not drop, I couldn't feel it in any way when it did indicate it was in neutral. So I would not advise using this technique unless your vehicle is in water, you MUST move it, and you cannot get underneath it.

Although I was able to get the transfer case into neutral twice, it really felt like a 'hack' -- it took a while to get it to go into neutral, I had no idea when it would tell me it was in neutral, I had to let it sit in between H and L for a few seconds before the console indicated it was in neutral. Neutral is not a 'provided' setting, it really seems to be a hack, it took a lot of jiggling the transfer case shifter to get it in between H and L to where I'd get the console message that the transfer case was in neutral, and it wasn't very easy and doesn't seem like it's a made for setting.

I do not know if this would work without power, it probably would since the transfer case shifter is mechanical and not electronic, but you'd have no indicator whether your transfer case really was in neutral or not without power to the console and ECM.

If you do get your transfer case into neutral, because the collar does not drop, there seems to be no way to lock it into neutral, and any movement or accidentally contacting the transfer case shifter could take it back out of neutral.

Car wash mode is another possibility (it's in your manual, mine is on page 137) -- with engine running you put your ZF in neutral, shut off the engine and *immediately* put the ignition into ACC mode -- the ZF will stay in neutral that way, but will switch to park after some number of minutes, which is not identified in the manual. I'll test that next time I'm out and about. I'm not keen on using this method without knowing how long it'll last, and ideally with a countdown time on the console so I know when it's going to shift back into Park. I wash my Grenadier myself, regularly, and never use car washes.

It seems to me that there's a good case to be made for modifying the transfer case and its shifter to enable a neutral mode in between H and L, where the collar would drop and set it into a confirmed safe neutral position so you would not have to rely on the console to tell you it's in neutral, and so you would not have to get underneath to manually set the ZF to neutral. There may be good reason why this is not implemented for our transfer cases.

It also seems ZF could modify their transmissions (or maybe this can be added without modification through a signal to the ZF) to go into neutral and stay there, while the engine is off, but this would only work as long as it has power. Perhaps a secondary battery, one that can be charged during driving, that is smaller, just enough to power the ZF could be used to provide power to it when the vehicle power cannot. Again, not an expert here, so maybe there's good reason it cannot be, or an extra battery capability would be too costly and complex.

/s.

While it can’t be done from the driver seat the transfer case can be put into neutral by screwing in the neutral bolt on the side of the transfer case. Instructions are in the owners manual. Also, the ZF transmission can be taken out of park and into neutral by pulling down and securing a lever on the side of the transmission which disengages the parking Pawl.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Clark Kent]

Transfer case can be put u

While it can’t be done from the driver seat the transfer case can be put into neutral by screwing in the neutral bolt on the side of the transfer case. Instructions are in the owners manual. Also, the ZF transmission can be taken out of park and into neutral by pulling down and securing a lever on the side of the transmission which disengages the parking Pawl.

Cheers
Steve

I keep coming back to this remote cable kit for the transmission parking pawl release lever. Did I see it posted on the forum recently? Not sure. Credit to that person if so.

The kit is listed for an 8HP70. The 8HP76 in the diesel Grenadier has the required park release lever. I don't know if the 8HP51 in the petrol/gas Grenadier has it also. Not sure where this could be mounted on a Grenadier but I keep giving it some side eye.

BTI 8HP70 Transmission Release Kit

Our BTI Transmission Release Kit is a hand assembled custom cut stainless steal 6 piece kit designed to perfectly compliment your 8HP70 Transmission needs In The kit: - Mount Bracket - Ratcheting Release Knob - Glow in the Dark Bracket - Cable - Rear Cable Mount Bracket - Dual Bracket Mount...

www.btigauges.com

 

[Logsplitter]

I keep coming back to this remote cable kit for the transmission parking pawl release lever. Did I see it posted on the forum recently? Not sure. Credit to that person if so.

The kit is listed for an 8HP70. The 8HP76 in the diesel Grenadier has the required park release lever. I don't know if the 8HP51 in the petrol/gas Grenadier has it also. Not sure where this could be mounted on a Grenadier but I keep giving it some side eye.

BTI 8HP70 Transmission Release Kit

Our BTI Transmission Release Kit is a hand assembled custom cut stainless steal 6 piece kit designed to perfectly compliment your 8HP70 Transmission needs In The kit: - Mount Bracket - Ratcheting Release Knob - Glow in the Dark Bracket - Cable - Rear Cable Mount Bracket - Dual Bracket Mount...

www.btigauges.com

View attachment 7917249
View attachment 7917250

That would be very useful if it could be made to work.

 

[Greasemonkey]

There is another version

https://www.seemslegitgarage.com/product-page/dodge-8hp-park-release-kit

 

[scottg]

While it can’t be done from the driver seat the transfer case can be put into neutral by screwing in the neutral bolt on the side of the transfer case. Instructions are in the owners manual. Also, the ZF transmission can be taken out of park and into neutral by pulling down and securing a lever on the side of the transmission which disengages the parking Pawl.

Cheers
Steve

I am aware of those methods, this wasn't me trying to find a way to do it because there wasn't one, but getting under the vehicle in water isn't an option. I was curious whether the ZF and/or transfer case could be put into neutral from inside the car, and though I've shown the transfer case can be, and the Grenadier recognizes that the transfer case is in neutral, I would not use this method except in very extreme circumstances.
/s.

 

[scottg]

The more I think about this, the more I wonder, why not a neutral setting for the transfer case? I mean, I got it into neutral twice. The ECM recognizes neutral for the transfer case, and the console notifies that the transfer case is in neutral, so it is a valid state for the transfer case to be in. None of that would be there if the ECM codings and transfer case were not communicating a neutral status. So why not a stop-and-drop-the-collar and an "N" position on the transfer case?

Here, I meant why not have the ability to set it to neutral from inside the Grenadier, not that it couldn't be done by getting under the vehicle. Mind you, I love getting under my Grenadier, just prefer doing it under safe and controlled conditions

 

[Dokatd]

Here, I meant why not have the ability to set it to neutral from inside the Grenadier, not that it couldn't be done by getting under the vehicle. Mind you, I love getting under my Grenadier, just prefer doing it under safe and controlled conditions

90's rovers are the exact same setup in regards to getting T-case in neutral, except rovers have a slightly larger and more positive gate. Neither have a positive detent to keep the truck in neutral

I can very quickly set the Grenadier T-case into neutral, but I have found some owners (read most) to have difficulty finding the exact spot.

 

[Happyoldgit]

I get the impression there is not a lot of physical distance between the relative gears when the transfer case shifter is in the in between H and L false neutral position. A study of the actual method of providing the positive gate stop location the shifter lock rod drops into gives some idea of this…

Given the relative proximity of the existing ratio and diff lock hole locations the shifter rod drops into suggests it might be tricky to drill additional locations to provide a positive N hole (for the rod )

 

[TD5-90]

...
Given the relative proximity of the existing ratio and diff lock hole locations the shifter rod drops into suggests it might be tricky to drill additional locations to provide a positive N hole (for the rod )

I suspect that the cable actuation mechanism is the main obstacle to achieving a stable “center point” of the HI-LO lever at the xfer case itself.
Used this "hidden function" several times in the past to move the vehicle by hand; that cables always felt like they weren't the originally intended solution...

 

[Happyoldgit]

I suspect that the cable actuation mechanism is the main obstacle to achieving a stable “center point” of the HI-LO lever at the xfer case itself.
Used this "hidden function" several times in the past to move the vehicle by hand; that cables always felt like they weren't the originally intended solution...

Agreed. A direct acting or more positive linkage would have helped reduce the somewhat vague, porridge stirrer feel of the setup as is.

 

[Jeremy996]

Agreed. A direct acting or more positive linkage would have helped reduce the somewhat vague, porridge stirrer feel of the setup as is.

Remember the Austin Maxi; a cable operated gearbox on the early ones, replaced by a less than stellar rod arrangement on later models. "Stirring marbles with a knitting needle" was one motoring writer comment.

 

[Clark Kent]

There is another version

https://www.seemslegitgarage.com/product-page/dodge-8hp-park-release-kit

That's a good find @Greasemonkey.
They do a kit that is specific to BMW (ZF) 8HPx transmissions including the 51 and 76 used in Grenadier.
The Dodge 8HP kit replaces the lever on the transmission so the release cable can attach to it. On the Dodge 8HP trans the lever is held on by a nut. On the BMW 8HP trans the lever is welded to the shaft so they sell a specific kit. The lever needs to be cut off and a new lever drops over the top. A hole gets drilled in the shaft then tapped to take a M6 cap screw to retain the new lever. That could not be done with the trans installed due to a lack of space.

https://www.seemslegitgarage.com/product-page/bmw-park-lock-kit

This would need more thought for Grenadier. The challenge is creating an attachment point at the lever at an angle and distance that permits a remote pull cable to connect and operate.

Grenadier diesel (8HP76 trans)

Edit: pic added.

 

[Dokatd]

That's a good find @Greasemonkey.
They do a kit that is specific to BMW (ZF) 8HPx transmissions including the 51 and 76 used in Grenadier.
The Dodge 8HP kit replaces the lever on the transmission so the release cable can attach to it. On the Dodge 8HP trans the lever is held on by a nut. On the BMW 8HP trans the lever is welded to the shaft so they sell a specific kit. The lever needs to be cut off and a new lever drops over the top. A hole gets drilled in the shaft then tapped to take a M6 cap screw to retain the new lever. That could not be done with the trans installed due to a lack of space.

https://www.seemslegitgarage.com/product-page/bmw-park-lock-kit

This would need more thought for Grenadier. The challenge is creating an attachment point at the lever at an angle and distance that permits a remote pull cable to connect and operate.

Grenadier diesel (8HP76 trans)

Edit: pic added.

All this to what end? Don't get me wrong, I prefer mechanical attachments over electric on critical items, but in this case I'm not seeing the immediate benefits.

 

[Happyoldgit]

Remember the Austin Maxi; a cable operated gearbox on the early ones, replaced by a less than stellar rod arrangement on later models. "Stirring marbles with a knitting needle" was one motoring writer comment.

Yes I remember the old Maxi's