Owners Manual MY24 Supplement

[Znarfgh]

It is now official INEOS does not like Lithium much. It only mentions the starter battery, silent on the aux battery. From page 61:

View attachment 7836553

Very few companies supply a LiFePO4 starter battery and those that do, have a lesser warranty. I think it's a case of the high amp draw from the starter and the constant stop/start function playing havoc with the BMS. LiFePO4 batteries have BMS's designed to shut down the battery in cases of high current demand and I think the manufacturers that offer hybrid starters have a specially calibrated BMS in them which is probably less sensitive to high current draw.

Lithium's have been around since the Seventies and I guess that cost is one reason they have not been widely used in the automotive industry. There is probably not enough evidence to suggest their suitability as a starter battery. I know of one Youtuber that has used them for about 18 months and after finding that they had lost 20 & 30% of their capacity in that time, he discontinued their use and went back to lead acid.

I would love to replace the EFB's at the end of their life with a pair of LiFePO4's because of their lighter weight and greater cyclical performance but for now, it's a bit of a gamble.

 

[TheDocAUS]

The INEOS rep responsible for ADR approvals in Australia is not a fan of lithium (for main or aux), at least certain brands of lithium. He told me so directly.

 

[Znarfgh]

The INEOS rep responsible for ADR approvals in Australia is not a fan of lithium (for main or aux), at least certain brands of lithium. He told me so directly.

Did he give a reason for not liking Lithium?

 

[TheDocAUS]

Did he give a reason for not liking Lithium?

Not expressly, he seemed concerned about certain Lithium battery brands, esp the cheaper ones.

 

[anand]

He seemed concerned about certain Lithium battery brands, esp the cheaper ones.

I would imagine that this is the primary concern... it seems like everyone is doing their own batteries from XYZ cells and a random BMS thrown together.... From an business perspective this is an absolute nightmare as far as support goes

 

[Znarfgh]

Not expressly, he seemed concerned about certain Lithium battery brands, esp the cheaper ones.

Well, he's right on the cheaper versions - anything from crappy, undersized wiring to the use of second hand cells. There's a reason they are cheap! I've been running quality Lithium's for almost 5 years and have found them to be revolutionary when compared to GEL/AGM. I used to have "range anxiety"with GEL batteries but got over that with the Lithium's. Despite not having more than a 20A DC-DC charger in the van I will use 40Ah overnight and know that within an an hour and I bit I'll be back at 100%.

Whilst I still keep an eye on the Victron BMV, it's more out of habit than need.

 

[TheDocAUS]

Well, he's right on the cheaper versions - anything from crappy, undersized wiring to the use of second hand cells. There's a reason they are cheap! I've been running quality Lithium's for almost 5 years and have found them to be revolutionary when compared to GEL/AGM. I used to have "range anxiety"with GEL batteries but got over that with the Lithium's. Despite not having more than a 20A DC-DC charger in the van I will use 40Ah overnight and know that within an an hour and I bit I'll be back at 100%.

Whilst I still keep an eye on the Victron BMV, it's more out of habit than need.

He was not in favour of better brands either, he did not like Lithium period. Speaking to the dealer yesterday I got more insight, INEOS does not want/like/encourage Lithium batteries inside the car.

Lithium fires can be very dangerous, but the risk is lower with LiFePO4 chemistry.

 

[Znarfgh]

Old school and I don't think they really understand LiFePO4 and still think it's a fire hazard - as per pouch cells and cheap, crappy batteries. Inside the car is where they need to be as they are not suited to under bonnet use. They don't off gas and don't require venting (although the caravan industry has just mandated that - again out of ignorance rather than real issues).

 

[TheDocAUS]

Old school and I don't think they really understand LiFePO4 and still think it's a fire hazard - as per pouch cells and cheap, crappy batteries. Inside the car is where they need to be as they are not suited to under bonnet use. They don't off gas and don't require venting (although the caravan industry has just mandated that - again out of ignorance rather than real issues).

I think the poor reputation of cheap Lithium batteries damaged the name, for sure. There is also a New Australian Standard where if you added Lithium you need to seal and vent externally the battery box.

 

[grnamin]

Not expressly, he seemed concerned about certain Lithium battery brands, esp the cheaper ones.

Maybe possible Tesla fire-like situations?