Europe Order cancelled

[TD5-90]

The most sensible statement you have made there and I don’t think anyone could disagree with “it’s only a car”.

Guys, what's that? You're still aware that it's all about cars and girls, right?

And taking into account the information coming from the "Average age of Grenadier Buyers" thread: There's not much left except cars!

;-)

 

[stickshifter]

To the OP: I feel for you, and if I were in your shoes I'd be frustrated as well. There is no way around the fact that buying a Grenadier involves greater risk than buying a Toyota or some other big established brand (dealer network all with service centers, availability of spare parts, etc.).

I am not trying to defend Ineos, but even the big manufacturers can mess up the delivery process. I had a pretty bad experience trying to order a Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro about 6 years ago. I put $200 down on an order and months and months passed. I reached out to them once a month, always to hear "we don't know when your truck is coming in". Finally, I went in and talked to the sales manager, who told me that my truck was never coming. I don't even remember the explanation. I was so annoyed I just walked out of the place. Similarly, the roll-out of the new Bronco has been a real s--- show for Ford (granted, Covid played a big role in disrupting Bronco deliveries, whereas Toyota had no excuse back in 2017).

Anyway, I hope that you are content with your decision. If all goes well for Ineos, you will be able to order a Grenadier a year from now, or ten years from now, should you come back around!

 

[Krabby]

@stickshifter This is a bit different in that folks here are essentially ordering directly from IA, where you were dealing with a dealer. Which, as we know here in NA, sucks. I’ve ranted elsewhere here about my passionate dislIke of the dealer arrangement - particularly in my home state of New Jersey. Having to go through a traditional American car dealership is my main worry if I’m honest. Fingers crossed when that list is finally announced.

 

[Jean Mercier]

@stickshifter This is a bit different in that folks here are essentially ordering directly from IA, where you were dealing with a dealer. Which, as we know here in NA, sucks. I’ve ranted elsewhere here about my passionate dislIke of the dealer arrangement - particularly in my home state of New Jersey. Having to go through a traditional American car dealership is my main worry if I’m honest. Fingers crossed when that list is finally announced.

For the time being - and I am not speaking of the USA market, that's for later - I think there isn't a big difference with people dealing with a dealer and those dealing directly with Ineos.

Swiss, Benelux, Scandinavians, ,Portugal, ... are dealing with a dealer. But this was probably to take away some "small countries administrative bullshit" away from INEOS that the dealers where used to deal with in their respective markets (taxes, and so on).

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

For uk and European based folk, the finishing line is in sight. The 8th of February should see the veil drop on IA secrecy as the press release a tsUnami of reviews. It seems there’s a bow wave of interest pent up and my local dealer has a long list of test drive requests once a demo arrives. i for one am looking forward to Christmas and believe in Father Christmas as well as Uncle Ratcliffe, being able to put something boxy and large in to my stocking. But in February not December.. and this February not next…

 

[Spjnr]

the communication and support from Toyota has left Ineos looking very incompetent

I tried to order a new Toyota Hilux 2 years ago. Was passed from salesman to salesman, told to wait, made numerous appointments that I turned up to, only to be told I wouldn't be able to see anyone that day (this was 2 different dealerships).

I was finally told the 18 month wait for a truck was the reason they weren't pro active about taking orders!

I walked out the dealership, and decided to wait for the Grenadier!

 

[stickshifter]

@stickshifter This is a bit different in that folks here are essentially ordering directly from IA, where you were dealing with a dealer. Which, as we know here in NA, sucks. I’ve ranted elsewhere here about my passionate dislIke of the dealer arrangement - particularly in my home state of New Jersey. Having to go through a traditional American car dealership is my main worry if I’m honest. Fingers crossed when that list is finally announced.

That's a good point - my bad experience with Toyota was probably mostly on the dealer, but I also think that Toyota was not prioritizing orders of manual transmission vehicles. On the other hand, the problem delivering Broncos was mostly on Ford (later, of course, as deliveries trickled in, dealers marked them up like crazy, which is more of the issue I think you are concerned with).

 

[stickshifter]

I tried to order a new Toyota Hilux 2 years ago. Was passed from salesman to salesman, told to wait, made numerous appointments that I turned up to, only to be told I wouldn't be able to see anyone that day (this was 2 different dealerships).

I was finally told the 18 month wait for a truck was the reason they weren't pro active about taking orders!

I walked out the dealership, and decided to wait for the Grenadier!

That sucks. I've owned a lot of Toyotas. For a variety of reasons, I don't see myself buying another one.

 

[Spjnr]

That sucks. I've owned a lot of Toyotas. For a variety of reasons, I don't see myself buying another one.

Sounds similar to your experience! I currently drive a older Hilux and its a great truck. But buying new from them isn't always good. A very good friend of mine had a terrible experience when he bought his Yaris GR.... arrived scratched and dirty, after hashing it out with the dealership manager, we walked outside to see the car cleaner practically sitting on the bonnet having a cigarette ... Needless to say my mate wasn't too happy!

 

[Krabby]

That's a good point - my bad experience with Toyota was probably mostly on the dealer, but I also think that Toyota was not prioritizing orders of manual transmission vehicles. On the other hand, the problem delivering Broncos was mostly on Ford (later, of course, as deliveries trickled in, dealers marked them up like crazy, which is more of the issue I think you are concerned with).

Greedy bastards. Local Ford dealer has a Bronco Raptor for sale. Just a slight, tiny “market adjustment fee” of $25,000.

 

[Spjnr]

Greedy bastards. Local Ford dealer has a Bronco Raptor for sale. Just a slight, tiny “market adjustment fee” of $25,000.

Hey, those Dealership Christmas parties aren't cheap!

 

[TD5-90]

I’m with you. As for logs I’ll be doing the same. We rely on wood burners to keep warm so plenty of logs are needed. I’m going to make up a ply box lining I can side in out for when filled up with logs and or tree saplings, plants, chainsaws and other equipment. Keeping it in reasonable nick for travels.

Never missed side panels....

 

[IG_in_AZ]

There have been so many inconsistencies and communication issues, that my wife is understandably concerned about spending this much on a car where the support has been so dubious, and she isn’t alone there, as she says, If it’s this bad now, what will it be like when owners start to need post-delivery support?

Unfortunately, she is waiting to be advised of the build date for a Toyota she has ordered, so she has a direct comparison. Even with Toyota’s established reputation as one of the biggest and most reliable marques globally, the communication and support from Toyota has left Ineos looking very incompetent, something she keeps being able to take embarrassing digs at me about. She also makes a point of wearing the cap Toyota sent her for Christmas, as a 'thank you for being patient', and she only ordered it in December 22.

To make matters worse, we attended a drive day where she was thankfully impressed with the vehicle, but as an event organiser herself, she was gobsmacked at how badly managed the event was, and she is correct, it was as basic as it gets. There were a few Ineos staff to provide verbal information about the vehicle, no ability to change our specification there, staff give us wrong information about how to make changes, no merchandise, toilets hadn’t been unlocked, no brochures, no information boards … her list of failures goes on. Suffice it so say, the event only reinforced her lack of confidence in Ineos, but she did like the car though.

The only comfort I have been able to give her is that at least the design and development were largely outsourced, it’s a Mercedes built factory and trained staff, and some of the more critical components, like the engine and drivetrain, aren’t ‘Ineos’, and BMW does have a solid reputation.

She still isn’t comfortable with me buying the Grenadier though … I hope I’m right !

Whatever decision you've made, or the decision your wife made for you, is the correct one for you. I wish you happiness with whatever you end up buying.

 

[DDG]

Many much larger manufacturers have completely botched hotly anticipated roll outs like this. There may be a difference here that Ineos is not accounting for; a difference upon which their entire investment might fail. Ineos does not have a reputation among buyers. This is their first effort. I believe many of us will be forgiving of some minor sins. Here’s the big part though..the global economy is going down the crapper and they are selling an expensive luxury item. Unless they want to see their investment wasted, Sir Jim had better snap out of it. They really DO need to earn a loyal base of buyers who can afford their vanity project. By the sounds of the OPs experience, it’s already too late. To come so far and then fall on their face would be unfortunate

 

[tnkatoy]

Whatever decision you've made, or the decision your wife made for you, is the correct one for you. I wish you happiness with whatever you end up buying.

Fear not my fellow Grenaderian … it's become a matter of pride and fortitude to remain faithful to the concept/(cult) and hold out against dissent and condemnation. Many of us indoctrinated supporters/(worshipers) are able to forgive Ineos their shortcomings and see through to the greater good.

Even though many of those on the outside may not understand, it doesn’t invalidate their views and opinions about legitimate concerns though … I still hope I’m right, because if I’m not, she is, and ‘I told you so’ will be my lament.

 

[Max]

Fear not my fellow Grenaderian … it's become a matter of pride and fortitude to remain faithful to the concept/(cult) and hold out against dissent and condemnation. Many of us indoctrinated supporters/(worshipers) are able to forgive Ineos their shortcomings and see through to the greater good.

Even though many of those on the outside may not understand, it doesn’t invalidate their views and opinions about legitimate concerns though … I still hope I’m right, because if I’m not, she is, and ‘I told you so’ will be my lament.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I sit Down Under full of optimism, wonder, excitement and with the knowledge now that a brand new car manufacturing company that is producing production models way before I could have imagined them to do so, can make it work.
The Ineos smarts and wise choices of engineering and factory purchase have sped up what I thought was going to take much more time. I am not holding my breath Down Under just enjoying the proof but why Switzerland and not OZ Sir Jim?

 

[Tazzieman]

but why Switzerland and not OZ Sir Jim?

Maybe because Switzerland have never beaten them in the Ashes cricket series?

 

[Max]

Maybe because Switzerland have never beaten them in the Ashes cricket series?

Maybe Sir Jim is starting another movement?

 

[IG_in_AZ]

Fear not my fellow Grenaderian … it's become a matter of pride and fortitude to remain faithful to the concept/(cult) and hold out against dissent and condemnation. Many of us indoctrinated supporters/(worshipers) are able to forgive Ineos their shortcomings and see through to the greater good.

Even though many of those on the outside may not understand, it doesn’t invalidate their views and opinions about legitimate concerns though … I still hope I’m right, because if I’m not, she is, and ‘I told you so’ will be my lament.

The saying happy wife, happy life, perhaps misses the point a bit. I heard a version which I think is better: Happy spouse, happy house. This takes both parties into consideration.

 

[frankkk]

Many much larger manufacturers have completely botched hotly anticipated roll outs like this. There may be a difference here that Ineos is not accounting for; a difference upon which their entire investment might fail. Ineos does not have a reputation among buyers. This is their first effort. I believe many of us will be forgiving of some minor sins. Here’s the big part though..the global economy is going down the crapper and they are selling an expensive luxury item. Unless they want to see their investment wasted, Sir Jim had better snap out of it. They really DO need to earn a loyal base of buyers who can afford their vanity project. By the sounds of the OPs experience, it’s already too late. To come so far and then fall on their face would be unfortunate

Always love listening to New Yorkers..they´ll explain the entire world to you in a few sentences..well done, Sir..!