On the Grenadier Fence in Brisbane

[DaveB]

Well my source predated Dave's info by 2 days

Ok you win

 

[Tazzieman]

Ok you win

Well seeing as your car is being delivered months before mine , let's call it even stevens!

 

[Sam]

all of you.

Some of us have Defenders to sell after our Grenadiers arrive.

Certainly! But the old Defender (Tdi and TD5) is not comparable to the Grenadier - except for the shape. For the hard work Defender will always keep its buyers. It is simple in design, can be repaired anywhere, and spare parts are cheap. The Grenadier is in a whole different league. Hats off to those who will torment it just as they did their old Defender. Therefore it will always keep a high value on the used car market. Because the English have rarely designed anything better than this workhorse.

I disagree.

The IG is in direct competition with the Old Defender, save for the fact that the OD is now obsolete.

If Land Rover were to have updated the Defender properly, rather than turning it into another generic luxury SUV, it would be remarkably like the IG

 

[To]

I disagree.

The IG is in direct competition with the Old Defender, save for the fact that the OD is now obsolete.

If Land Rover were to have updated the Defender properly, rather than turning it into another generic luxury SUV, it would be remarkably like the IG

But this is exactly what distinguishes the old Defender from the very modern Grenadier. Which is a much more complex vehicle. With few, but compared to the OD very many electrical bells and whistles. That's what I mean. And that largely determines the intended use. One is too good for anything, the other you think about whether it's necessary.

 

[Zacman110]

Good on you for getting on with it. I wondered the same.. whether there would be a reduction in second hand values of defenders once the car gets out there.

I've got a couple of trips planned this year and I'm not sure I could manage setting up a new car I'm afraid.

I wonder if the 25 - 60k buyers for defenders are in the same price bracket as the 100k IG though. I’m going to sell my OD once my Grenadier arrives, mostly because of child induced safety concerns, but it’ll only go for $35-40k (I hope!!).

 

[rovie]

Certainly! But the old Defender (Tdi and TD5) is not comparable to the Grenadier - except for the shape. For the hard work Defender will always keep its buyers. It is simple in design, can be repaired anywhere, and spare parts are cheap. The Grenadier is in a whole different league. Hats off to those who will torment it just as they did their old Defender. Therefore it will always keep a high value on the used car market. Because the English have rarely designed anything better than this workhorse.

Why "hats off"? Of course I will move the Grenadier as I have used the Defender. After all, I don't spend that much money on a vehicle with fantastic off-road capabilities and only use it to go into town. That would be too bad for me. I buy a working tool that will last a long time, just like my other tools.

Even though I wrestled with myself for a long time, I sold my Defender, even though I liked it a lot. And with a 27% profit after 20 years. What more could you want!

 

[Max]

If the Old Defender had a proper makeover we would not be here...glad we are though...happy motoring and long live the OD mine is now 64 years young.

 

[Tazzieman]

Even though I wrestled with myself for a long time, I sold my Defender, even though I liked it a lot. And with a 27% profit after 20 years. What more could you want!

Did the man maths take the service costs into consideration?

 

[rovie]

Did the man maths take the service costs into consideration?

With the exception of the engine replacement due to turbo damage, I have not had any high service costs.

 

[Tazzieman]

With the exception of the engine replacement due to turbo damage, I have not had any high service costs.

One of the lucky ones!
Unlike houses , it's hard to profit from cars in the long term unless you have an icon/collectible in good condition. Defenders will tend to hold some value just on iconic status.
Certainly Land Rover parts are dirt cheap , by and large. But not all mechanics enjoy working on them.

 

[rovie]

One of the lucky ones!
Unlike houses , it's hard to profit from cars in the long term unless you have an icon/collectible in good condition. Defenders will tend to hold some value just on iconic status.
Certainly Land Rover parts are dirt cheap , by and large. But not all mechanics enjoy working on them.

Yes, that's right. But I do a lot of repairs myself. Just today I ordered a new starter motor for my Series Land Rover in England. It has been weakening the last few times. Today I wanted to go out into the field. Nothing worked. So I stayed in the garage and wait for the delivery from England.

 

[Tazzieman]

Yes, that's right. But I do a lot of repairs myself. Just today I ordered a new starter motor for my Series Land Rover in England. It has been weakening the last few times. Today I wanted to go out into the field. Nothing worked. So I stayed in the garage and wait for the delivery from England.

Have fun wiggling that heavy lump in and out! Did mine 3 months ago.

 

[Darby]

Thanks.

IMO (original) Defender values will soon drop. Even the newest examples are now 7 years old and starting to become less palatable for the urban set. Shiny examples sit forlornly in showrooms with twinkling paint and six-figure price tags (or ‘not for sale’). For those wanting a workhorse, the IG is a much more attractive option.

An anecdote:

I live in Perth, WA which is a small village in Tatooine, which is nowhere. I assume I’m not alone in being cold-called by the local Ineos agent to check order details. Ineos maintain the fantasy that my build date is still April. Sweet.

I asked how many orders were in front of me in the queue, expecting an answer of around 10-15. The answer was 120.

120!!

I predict a lot of old defenders are about to hit the market.

Is that 120 queue for Western Australia?
I was told a build date of January, also based in Perth, quite excited!

 

[DesertGecko]

Wow that’s really a lot. Here in Germany the Defender is probably not that often in its natural habitat as it is in Australia. So many people buy it just to feed more earthy and natural. It’s a status sign which is to find more frequently in the richest areas of the country. In Hamburg Harvestehude and München (Munic) Herzogpark they will probably stay as they aren’t used that much (as they are third or fourth cars)
But many people who own a Defender for its abilities will think about the change if they can afford it.

By the way a car dealer near my office trys to sell a well equipped TD4.
It’s a bargain. Just 74500 €.
Who would be so dull and buy a new shiny and capable Grenadier instead…

Around here.. there are broadly two groups of OD owners.

Class 1.
Typically these people own their Defenders and they have been everywhere man.. or worked hard for what they can do. They show all the signs of "working" but they just keep going.

Class 2.
People who typically live in the inner city, and they own super shiny defenders. They look just like they've just rolled out of the showroom. Never done a days work. Typically they are one of the last Puma ones so tend to be a bit newer and more comfy.

Strangely.. whenever I see a Class 2 OD I just start humming the song... "I lied about being the outdoor type". I genuinely don't know why these people own them. I suspect they probably have a more comfortable car for most of their running around.. Anyway.. thing is how they react to the grenadier is probably of interest because I suspect they have been the ones edging the OD market up.

When I bought my "New Defender" in 2005 only about 150-200 were being sold a year in Aus so there isn't a big supply of them. Will be interesting to see what the prices do.

I think I mentioned I'm maybe doing a trip in June, and in September, and we always go to Fraser Island at the end of the year so it's hard to find a time to take on a new car. Probably in early 04...

PS Edited profile pic from the ones I took for the insurance company to it's more normal state of being.

 

[Sam]

Is that 120 queue for Western Australia?
I was told a build date of January, also based in Perth, quite excited!

So i'm told...

 

[rovie]

Have fun wiggling that heavy lump in and out! Did mine 3 months ago.

I will certainly have that. I am really looking forward to it.
Well, I'll take the Landy on the lifting platform, then maybe I'll get a better look.

 

[Tazzieman]

I will certainly have that. I am really looking forward to it.
Well, I'll take the Landy on the lifting platform, then maybe I'll get a better look.

I did mine whilst it was bogged in soft mud at my place , on a side slope.
You'll be fine!

 

[DesertGecko]

Ok, so I've finally had my turn to have a good paw over a prototype. No drive though. I've come away with a heap of questions and observations.

Firstly and this is a real positive. The interior is lovely. It's all the things in the defender fixed that we always wanted fixed. It's well comfortable for three across the back. Plenty of space in all the directions. This is awesome. The footrest.. I wish it wasn't there but I don't think it would worry me. I think sometimes it would be quite handy for bracing. Overall though the ergonomics are excellent. I didn't think the roof switches were as easy to operate as I'd hoped for. For tall people they are too close so you're kinda looking along the panel rather than at it. Minor quibble though. There was only one dome light in the back seats. I think it would need some extra light in the front unless those little map lights are brighter than they looked.

The rear of the car is a bit of an issue though. It's significantly smaller than my 110. By my measurements it's nearly half a metre shorter, slightly wider and a fraction less height. The space is definitely very useable though.. better access than the 110. This will cause me some headaches though. When we do trips with five people we need every ounce of space. Until/unless there is some way of sicking more fuel in the car.. it's going to be a real big issue for what we do. Also in the defender i can put multiple bikes in the behind the back seat. Won't be possible in this one I wouldn't think.

Underneath it seemed a little lower than I was expecting. I'm a bit concerned that the steering damper is the lowest point on the front. I guess it's not a big deal to carry a spare. The suspension looks quite solid which is good. I was somewhat alarmed that it had a giant spinifex collector and incinerator. I'm really quite concerned about this. I'm surprised it didn't come up in their testing, but they were here when it was super wet. I reckon if the season was bad you'd be cleaning this every break. If it's dry in the desert this year It wouldn't at all surprise me if there is a torching or two. See photo below.

Overall it reminded me in many ways of a new version of a discovery2. I do really like the car but I need a solid think about it. In the defender I could fit enough stuff for five people but we didn't have enough room for the occupants. With the grenadier I'll have enough room for the occupants but not the stuff.

 

[globalgregors]

Ok, so I've finally had my turn to have a good paw over a prototype. No drive though. I've come away with a heap of questions and observations.

Firstly and this is a real positive. The interior is lovely. It's all the things in the defender fixed that we always wanted fixed. It's well comfortable for three across the back. Plenty of space in all the directions. This is awesome. The footrest.. I wish it wasn't there but I don't think it would worry me. I think sometimes it would be quite handy for bracing. Overall though the ergonomics are excellent. I didn't think the roof switches were as easy to operate as I'd hoped for. For tall people they are too close so you're kinda looking along the panel rather than at it. Minor quibble though. There was only one dome light in the back seats. I think it would need some extra light in the front unless those little map lights are brighter than they looked.

The rear of the car is a bit of an issue though. It's significantly smaller than my 110. By my measurements it's nearly half a metre shorter, slightly wider and a fraction less height. The space is definitely very useable though.. better access than the 110. This will cause me some headaches though. When we do trips with five people we need every ounce of space. Until/unless there is some way of sicking more fuel in the car.. it's going to be a real big issue for what we do. Also in the defender i can put multiple bikes in the behind the back seat. Won't be possible in this one I wouldn't think.

Underneath it seemed a little lower than I was expecting. I'm a bit concerned that the steering damper is the lowest point on the front. I guess it's not a big deal to carry a spare. The suspension looks quite solid which is good. I was somewhat alarmed that it had a giant spinifex collector and incinerator. I'm really quite concerned about this. I'm surprised it didn't come up in their testing, but they were here when it was super wet. I reckon if the season was bad you'd be cleaning this every break. If it's dry in the desert this year It wouldn't at all surprise me if there is a torching or two. See photo below.

Overall it reminded me in many ways of a new version of a discovery2. I do really like the car but I need a solid think about it. In the defender I could fit enough stuff for five people but we didn't have enough room for the occupants. With the grenadier I'll have enough room for the occupants but not the stuff.


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Interesting observations @DesertGecko. It does sound like the only solution to your volumetric challenge (passengers + cargo > available space) is a longer wheelbase, no matter the vehicle. I guess the upside here (wrt 110 vs Grenadier) is that surplus cargo - unlike passengers - can go onto the roof...

 

[Max]

Dare I say it...compact solid trailer...that is sticking the chin out but you don't have to lug it around on the daily runs...the Grenadier will pull it.