Ineos Automotive Restructuring

[Krabby]

Let's consolidate these threads

DONE

 

[DesertGecko]

lol UK sold 302 units in 2024 while maintaining how many service centers!?

It's hard to process these numbers. I'm not familiar with the UK market.
In Australia all the pre orders are now long delivered and the buzz has died and the hard work of selling cars in a competitive market place looks like a struggle. Dropping agency model, not boasting about sales figures, doing massive rolling discounts doesn't bode well.
IMHO the biggest problem ineos faces is they have priced themselves out of the market. Let's hope this restructuring will reduce costs and allow them to hit a more competitive price going forward. They need to sell cars to be viable.
People forget that "unicorn" cars like the original defender and the g-wagon existed within large and diverse product families, and they sold significant numbers to fleets. Their competitor the Toyota 70x series is quite similar in this regard. Ineos is trying to be viable with just one model - they need volume.

 

[Skymark]

I used to work at a mid-size company that a a matter of policy did a round of restructuring layoffs every year. Some years small, some years larger. No doubt always a least favorite time of the year for me & my managers. But the reality never matched the inevitable prognostications of doom. In fact each year the company put together a departure package that consistently exceeded what would be possible for a manager to do on their own if they were only given a vague directive to cut costs or were trying to manage out an under-performing staffer. It enabled the managers to handle the case where an employee was not good but not terrible either. For the company, it freed up cash to reinvest in growth areas. A terrible day for those let go and a bad day for everyone else. But everyone was treated with respect and the company was much more nimble in adapting to a rapidly evolving marketplace. Before I took that job if you asked me if it would ever see a positive role for a layoff you could have knocked me over with a feather.

 

[Zimm]

Before I took that job if you asked me if it would ever see a positive role for a layoff you could have knocked me over with a feather.

Yes, having an official "purge" day every year is a moral booster reflective of awesome management.

 

[Tom109]

I used to work at a mid-size company that a a matter of policy did a round of restructuring layoffs every year. Some years small, some years larger. No doubt always a least favorite time of the year for me & my managers. But the reality never matched the inevitable prognostications of doom. In fact each year the company put together a departure package that consistently exceeded what would be possible for a manager to do on their own if they were only given a vague directive to cut costs or were trying to manage out an under-performing staffer. It enabled the managers to handle the case where an employee was not good but not terrible either. For the company, it freed up cash to reinvest in growth areas. A terrible day for those let go and a bad day for everyone else. But everyone was treated with respect and the company was much more nimble in adapting to a rapidly evolving marketplace. Before I took that job if you asked me if it would ever see a positive role for a layoff you could have knocked me over with a feather.

Yes, having an official "purge" day every year is a moral booster reflective of awesome management.

And a clear indication to work somewhere else!

 

[Skymark]

And a clear indication to work somewhere else!

You would think and I went in thinking that too. But in practice, I was proved wrong. In a company of 8K-12K employees a 0.5%-3% layoff never affected turnover stats which remained 5-8% year over year and the company had no trouble retaining staff nor attracting staff. Counter intuitive, but general staff morale tended to improve seeing lower performing staff moved onwards versus carried year after year. Getting a bit away from the topic of the INEOS Automotive layoff other than to say if they plow HQ cash freed up into better dealer and end customer support roles, I am all for that.

 

[AWo]

Yes, having an official "purge" day every year is a moral booster reflective of awesome management.

I only can assume that these hits lower qualified tasks....otherwise it would be a huge brain-drain...every year...who can afford that? The only business were I'm aware that they have a huge fluctuation is in the sales department of personnel service providers. They exchange their sales persons as quick as the "human resource capital" they "rent".

AWo

 

[mcdoogs]

It's hard to process these numbers. I'm not familiar with the UK market.
In Australia all the pre orders are now long delivered and the buzz has died and the hard work of selling cars in a competitive market place looks like a struggle. Dropping agency model, not boasting about sales figures, doing massive rolling discounts doesn't bode well.
IMHO the biggest problem ineos faces is they have priced themselves out of the market. Let's hope this restructuring will reduce costs and allow them to hit a more competitive price going forward. They need to sell cars to be viable.
People forget that "unicorn" cars like the original defender and the g-wagon existed within large and diverse product families, and they sold significant numbers to fleets. Their competitor the Toyota 70x series is quite similar in this regard. Ineos is trying to be viable with just one model - they need volume.

i think another major issue is that the auto consumer market has changed quite a lot the past decade or two.

Non enthusiasts don’t really buy second cars anymore. The Grenadier is an awesome second car. It’s not a great all-rounder, especially at it’s price and compared to its price point competition and that is what most consumers are shopping for.

 

[JHIG1]

i think another major issue is that the auto consumer market has changed quite a lot the past decade or two.

Non enthusiasts don’t really buy second cars anymore. The Grenadier is an awesome second car. It’s not a great all-rounder, especially at its price and compared to its price point competition and that is what most consumers are shopping for.

That’s true… but the same could be said about wranglers and broncos but they sell a ton of them….Ineos should be fine and likely will be as a niche high end but not luxury off roader….there is zero chance they expected to make a profit anytime soon, I honestly think they are just realizing their market…over landing seems to be a strong segment in the US.

 

[mcdoogs]

That’s true… but the same could be said about wranglers and broncos but they sell a ton of them….Ineos should be fine and likely will be as a niche high end but not luxury off roader….there is zero chance they expected to make a profit anytime soon, I honestly think they are just realizing their market…over landing seems to be a strong segment in the US.

Wranglers and Broncos start at like half the price of the base grenadier, they arent directly comparable.

 

[HeavyFoot]

Wranglers and Broncos start at like half the price of the base grenadier, they arent directly comparable.

Agree, but no one (excluding the group that buys to tear it apart and rebuild from ground up) would be cross shopping a base Bronco/Wrangler and a Grenadier. My Bronco build when cross shopping came to 68. And a 4dr Rubicon falls in the 50s to even begin.

 

[mcdoogs]

Agree, but no one (excluding the group that buys to tear it apart and rebuild from ground up) would be cross shopping a base Bronco/Wrangler and a Grenadier. My Bronco build when cross shopping came to 68. And a 4dr Rubicon falls in the 50s to even begin.

I think my main point is being lost/disregarded. I'm not talking about the enthusiast market which is a pretty small minority of the new car consumer base. By and large, I don't think non-enthusiasts are cross shopping high-spec broncos and wranglers with the Grenadier (if they actually are and Gren sales are still so low, that is a nasty picture for Ineos).

 

[JHIG1]

Wranglers and Broncos start at like half the price of the base grenadier, they arent directly comparable.

Actually they are not nearly as different as you think, I have both, I’m telling you the upper end Bronco, Wrangler buyer is absolutely a possible Ineos customer….it’s small market,but Ineos is a small brand that only needs small numbers in comparison….knowledge of the Ineos brand is still dreadfully low in the US, they need a bit more main stream marketing imho.

 

[mcdoogs]

Actually they are not nearly as different as you think, I have both, I’m telling you the upper end Bronco, Wrangler buyer is absolutely a possible Ineos customer….it’s small market,but Ineos is a small brand that only needs small numbers in comparison….knowledge of the Ineos brand is still dreadfully low in the US, they need a bit more main stream marketing imho.

I never said it never happens, but it's rare outside of enthusiast buyers. Getting just a small percentage of enthusiast car buyers isn't enough for Ineos, they need to manufacture some mainstream appeal.

Maybe a trim with some more road-first features consumers expect? Speaking of Broncos, a $70k Bronco not only comes with cross axle lockers, swaybar disconnects, 35" tires stock but it also has things like Adaptive Cruise Control. Lets not talk about the feature deficit with the more direct competitors like GX/LC/Defender etc. It's not just a marketing problem, the product does not seem to appeal to the American new SUV buyer.

 

[JHIG1]

I never said it never happens, but it's rare outside of enthusiast buyers. Getting just a small percentage of enthusiast car buyers isn't enough for Ineos, they need to manufacture some mainstream appeal.

Maybe a trim with some more road-first features consumers expect? Speaking of Broncos, a $70k Bronco not only comes with cross axle lockers, swaybar disconnects, 35" tires stock but it also has things like Adaptive Cruise Control. Lets not talk about the feature deficit with the more direct competitors like GX/LC/Defender etc. It's not just a marketing problem, the product does not seem to appeal to the American new SUV buyer.

We can just disagree on the appeal…certainly it won’t appeal to the luxury must have buyer but I think there is plenty of appeal to get the numbers they need which just isn’t a ton….honestly knowledge of the brand is almost non existent still…easy to tell when everyone asks what it is every day, and this is in a huge market area for Ineos.