Front Drive Shaft Update

[Dokatd]

So, do we all go down and have a feel around the shaft in case the rubber has split and the grease is spurting out. Carefully rubbing around the full circumference of the rubber to see if anything is loose.
A quick daily feel, if it's not too wet might help avoid any unwanted accidents

I would suggest you check your boot every 300-500mi or more. You can usually do a visual check. If it looks even slightly wet then you need to feel it for a crack. If your fingers come back greasy then you likely have your answer.

Sadly there is no way to inspect for a damaged C-Clip without removing the drive shaft. Well, if the clip failed completely you would be able to pull the shaft out of the CV, but again mine was toast but still had just enough clip that I couldn't have pulled it out.

 

[C-Mack]

Has anyone with a stock vehicle configuration and cv-joint failure reported it to NHTSA? Sure, it may feel like yelling into a deep cave without getting a response but we’ve got to start somewhere and put pressure on. Not to mention protect ourselves and others users on the road where this has the potential to be safety/accident concern especially with the c-clip failures.

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

 

[OkGo]

Can anyone post a cutaway from the 'online manual' to highlight exactly what we are looking for ? @Logsplitter maybe.. please..

 

[Logsplitter]

Is this

Can anyone post a cutaway from the 'online manual' to highlight exactly what we are looking for ? @Logsplitter maybe.. please..

what you want

 

[Dokatd]

Can anyone post a cutaway from the 'online manual' to highlight exactly what we are looking for ? @Logsplitter maybe.. please..

What are you wanting specifically?

 

[Shoogs]

Mine failed at 56000kms, lift and 295 tyres, I didn’t expect warranty, but I informed the dealer. Who’s reply was they had never heard of this… BS.
And this is after they proudly state they have fitted 40+ lifts from the showroom.

Will be interesting when failures start to increase on those vehicles.
Including a well known YouTube channel, who has mentioned the problem.

I planned for the eventuality and have a Rzeppa and Agile. See how each performs.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Rzeppa high angle failed on mine, Agile on the way. Eventually this is looking like a 100% failure rate by about 50,000 miles are so. Dealers are lying if they say they don't know about this. While not the only 100% failure rate item, it is a dangerous and expensive one. ( power steering cap o ring and coolant reservoirs are 100% as well) O ring was simply the wrong size. Those issues are getting resolved and changed how ever. The driveshaft is a killer.

 

[Tom109]

So, do we all go down and have a feel around the shaft in case the rubber has split and the grease is spurting out. Carefully rubbing around the full circumference of the rubber to see if anything is loose.
A quick daily feel, if it's not too wet might help avoid any unwanted accidents

Yes, part of your vehicle check and on a regular basis. But how do you check the C-clip?

 

[cyson]

Rzeppa high angle failed on mine, Agile on the way. Eventually this is looking like a 100% failure rate by about 50,000 miles are so. Dealers are lying if they say they don't know about this. While not the only 100% failure rate item, it is a dangerous and expensive one. ( power steering cap o ring and coolant reservoirs are 100% as well) O ring was simply the wrong size. Those issues are getting resolved and changed how ever. The driveshaft is a killer.

Good to know about the power steering cap o ring and coolant reservoir high fail rates...

We should get a sticky that lists the heavy hitters.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Literally at tech inspection all the coolant reservoirs were in some state of failure in Moab, badly glued together, but on national back order. O ring is really easy, just show the dealer the oil leaking out the cap and in 2 seconds the right one can be tossed on. You will see white film around the seam of your coolant reservoir as it starts to wick. Easy stuff, but we are going to need the replacement reservoirs.

 

[Dokatd]

Yes, part of your vehicle check and on a regular basis. But how do you check the C-clip?

Virtually impossible. Honestly it should warrant a stop driving recall.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Virtually impossible. Honestly it should warrant a stop driving recall.

After what happened to me, and knowing most are likely to fail before warranty is even up.... I am not far off from that same opinion. This is one Ineos is just going to have to eat. Thankfully its not 5 years of engines and transmissions like Toyota and GMC, but still not good.

 

[evomind]

I think Ineos will fix as they break for the the 4 year warranty.
After that they figure everyone is on their own.
Thats how Land Rover would do it.

 

[Tom109]

Virtually impossible. Honestly it should warrant a stop driving recall.

I think Ineos will fix as they break for the the 4 year warranty.
After that they figure everyone is on their own.
Thats how Land Rover would do it.

So then every occurrence must file with NHTSA.

 

[Commodore]

Rzeppa high angle failed on mine, Agile on the way. Eventually this is looking like a 100% failure rate by about 50,000 miles are so. Dealers are lying if they say they don't know about this. While not the only 100% failure rate item, it is a dangerous and expensive one. ( power steering cap o ring and coolant reservoirs are 100% as well) O ring was simply the wrong size. Those issues are getting resolved and changed how ever. The driveshaft is a killer.

My dealer, Rusnak, keeps driveshafts in stock and has seen plenty of failures. This is the single biggest issue with the truck. There is no simple fix. Ineos needs to redesign the driveshaft around a larger CV made to operate at higher angles or they need to do and axle replacement with a front axle with the pinion point up at the transfer case. Those are the only realistic fixes.

Unless their plan is to just replace them until your warranty runs out and then it’s your problem. That would be very short sighted. They will eventually get sued and a recall will be forced on them. Of course that might take 3 years but it will happen.

 

[derek0343]

My dealer, Rusnak, keeps driveshafts in stock and has seen plenty of failures. This is the single biggest issue with the truck. There is no simple fix. Ineos needs to redesign the driveshaft around a larger CV made to operate at higher angles or they need to do and axle replacement with a front axle with the pinion point up at the transfer case. Those are the only realistic fixes.

Unless their plan is to just replace them until your warranty runs out and then it’s your problem. That would be very short sighted. They will eventually get sued and a recall will be forced on them. Of course that might take 3 years but it will happen.

I wonder how can we do a class action lawsuit against Ineos or what's the way force them to admit this is somthing they need to do a recall.

 

[Clark Kent]

I wonder how can we do a class action lawsuit against Ineos or what's the way force them to admit this is somthing they need to do a recall.

Doesn't your NHTSA have a role to play here?
It's been noted in other driveshaft threads that each affected owner in the USA who has had a CV failure should lodge a report to the NHTSA. This would carry more weight on stock suspension vehicles but all reports should help build a picture of the potential for a safety incident if a shaft fails at a bad time (there are no good times).
Ineos have acknowledged there is an issue. That was communicated back to @Stu_Barnes and @Krabby in the last round of AMA responses but it might take a nudge from the NHTSA for Ineos Engineering to get the internal priority and budget they need to come up with a fix.

 

[C-Mack]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they redesign the driveshaft/CV’s and front axle geometry at the same time but quietly introduce the changes during some sneaky mid-year update. Hard to say when but what it will do once the changes are discovered is create a shark effect as everyone will rush to dump their pre-revision models (impacting values).

I seriously doubt any offset or assistance by IA to current owners will be offered if IA introduces changes on their own. The only way for anything to happen retroactively would be if a series of accidents or injuries requiring investigations, stop-sells and safety recalls were to occur. Always optimistic and certainly willing to be surprised by any company willing to do the right thing for their customers so it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[derek0343]

Doesn't your NHTSA have a role to play here?
It's been noted in other driveshaft threads that each affected owner in the USA who has had a CV failure should lodge a report to the NHTSA. This would carry more weight on stock suspension vehicles but all reports should help build a picture of the potential for a safety incident if a shaft fails at a bad time (there are no good times).
Ineos have acknowledged there is an issue. That was communicated back to @Stu_Barnes and @Krabby in the last round of AMA responses but it might take a nudge from the NHTSA for Ineos Engineering to get the internal priority and budget they need to come up with a fix.

I feel NHTSA is not enough. Big company won't make any change until anything hurt them financially. Ineos and the dealership is denying warrenty on this driveshaft even you change the tire to a bigger size. I think a class auction lawsuit probably is the way to go now.

 

[Grenadiertrialgirl]

My boot was perfect the day before. Since I was out wheeling I kept checking it. It is unlikely the boot was the root cause. When I pulled over there was clouds of smoke from burning rubber, but by the time I crawled under the boot was melted away, and the cup around the joint melted nearly completely away, and the gear at the end just a blob. That was in maybe a few thousand feet at 70 MPH.

I spoke with Hans Peter about the issue and he literally went into a full rage over it. Dana did the design for them, and he was like " 50 years designing driveshafts and they screwed me" . He did not indicate any solutions on the horizon yet. But they know reliability is so important to the brand, and I believe something will get resolved down the road. Make sure if you have a failure its reported through warranty claims. Dont just install a new aftermarket shaft, so they can see the failure rate.

Just installed my lift... just to keep an eye on it, how often were you checking the boot/cv/and driveshaft? I'm currently at 30K miles