Front Drive Shaft Update

[Dokatd]

The real solution is to change the spec of the front axle by rotating the pinion up in relation to the kingpin knuckles. This will be great for new builds, but it is never something Ineos will provide for owners of previously built models as the cost would crush them.

This is the correct repair. And sadly Ineos will almost certainly deny us early adopters. A class lawsuit is certainly possible but that might not resolve actual issues. I would be fine with a discounted housing.

At the end of the day I may end up swapping Dana 60's or I was also thinking Volvo portals. With either I can resolve the issue myself.

 

[evomind]

Yeah.
Were stuck.

 

[Tazzieman]

Yeah.
Were stuck.

Another 20 pages and it''ll be sorted.

 

[NQ94]

Can't really blame Dana for what looks like an engineering cost and time push to get Grenadier to market and paying for itself.
For over 50 years Dana Spicer has had strict engineering and design limitations using standard components to make a driveshaft for any application. Ineos engineers would of known this, there would of been meetings with Ineos pushing Dana Spicer and Spicer pushing back on Ineos, in the end the accountants won.

 

[evomind]

This is the correct repair. And sadly Ineos will almost certainly deny us early adopters. A class lawsuit is certainly possible but that might not resolve actual issues. I would be fine with a discounted housing.

At the end of the day I may end up swapping Dana 60's or I was also thinking Volvo portals. With either I can resolve the issue myself.

What would that cost?

 

[Dokatd]

What would that cost?

A new axle housing, probably $6-8k min assuming they will sell a bare housing. They would probably require the whole axle be replaced though. That would probably be closer to $15k.

Those are just guesses though. But if done right it could help caster and driveshafts in one update. Would 100% change my feeling about my truck. This is why I may do a full axle swap myself, I don't have the patience to wait for Ineos.

 

[Commodore]

We need to start looking at different CV’s. We need to find one that will operate at the existing angle and adapt it to the TC yoke. Who as access to a catalog of CV’s.

It a better CV or engineer a different boot for the current CV.

No way a traditional u-joint is going to live at that high of an operating angle on a full time four wheel drive setup. If this was a part time setup then nobody would be having these problems because that shaft would only be rotating 5 percent of the time.

 

[Dokatd]

I just ordered some appropriate temp indicator paint. I will paint several areas of the t-case side CV including the boot to see if this is heat or a pinched boot. Recently it seems lots of people are coming up saying they have seen excess heat at the joint with one person saying the joint was glowing. I have not seen this, but I can report the joint at the case gets very very hot. I have suspected some heat related issues but dismissed them to a degree. We will see for sure with this paint marking on a virtually new joint. I have a few Grens around me that we can paint as well to get some samples.

Additionally the grease in my most recent joint was very black. It was very much red when installed. I'm concerned we are cooking these joints and thinking it's just a bad boot design.

 

[evomind]

A new axle housing, probably $6-8k min assuming they will sell a bare housing. They would probably require the whole axle be replaced though. That would probably be closer to $15k.

Those are just guesses though. But if done right it could help caster and driveshafts in one update. Would 100% change my feeling about my truck. This is why I may do a full axle swap myself, I don't have the patience to wait for Ineos.

Yeah, I wouldnt hold my breath waiting for Ineos...Look how long a simple software update took.
I just want a slight lift but wont do it till we get more direction here.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Here is Agiles solution for those not aware

 

[terdrocket]

Here is Agiles solution for those not aware

Talk to Agile. They will warn you it induces vibration at highway speed. How much and if it's tolerable is the question.

 

[Dokatd]

Here is Agiles solution for those not aware

We are all very aware. This has been discussed at length here. Agiles solution is not overly viable for most here due to its major shortcomings. It's great for a trail rig but not so much for people putting serious miles on their truck per year.

 

[Dokatd]

Well, the plot thickens!! My C-clip failed! It was just over half intact but was only holding on via grease. The back cap was hammered by the chunks of clip being beat by the CV itself. And the boot.....was most certainly pinched or at minimum worn internally.

 

[Dokatd]

Here is the worst pinch point. It's not where you think!! It's the splined shaft.

 

[C-Mack]

This was your TerraFlex joint that failed correct? I recall when you installed it you suggested letting the boot find its natural position and not try and clamp it where the witness marks were left behind by the original boot where it clamped to the shaft.

Curious if you think that may have let the Terra boot run deeper into the CV joint and splined area where you are now seeing the damage?

This is a bugger of an issue to resolve and great job sharing your findings thus far, I hope IA is watching the crap we are having to deal with with their design?

 

[Dokatd]

This was your TerraFlex joint that failed correct? I recall when you installed it you suggested letting the boot find its natural position and not try and clamp it where the witness marks were left behind by the original boot where it clamped to the shaft.

Curious if you think that may have let the Terra boot run deeper into the CV joint and splined area where you are now seeing the damage?

This is a bugger of an issue to resolve and great job sharing your findings thus far, I hope IA is watching the crap we are having to deal with with their design?

Yes, a terra flex. But the other stock joint would have a similar problem. The stock joint just had a longer snout on the boot. The bellows is almost identical and that's where it fails at the extreme. I'm literally in the middle of replacing this joint right now and developing my opinion as I type. I question if this is a pinch or just wear of the boot from making severe contact.

The part that wears is the shelf that keeps the CV located and firm against the C-clip. The entire "shelf" is the problem. This issue will exist on both stock and lifted trucks. Lift does not change things much at all. It's the total travel of your suspension that causes the issue. So when the front axle is in the air the rubber boot is rubbing and wearing against this shelf.

 

[Dokatd]

Yes, a terra flex. But the other stock joint would have a similar problem. The stock joint just had a longer snout on the boot. The bellows is almost identical and that's where it fails at the extreme. I'm literally in the middle of replacing this joint right now and developing my opinion as I type. I question if this is a pinch or just wear of the boot from making severe contact.

The part that wears is the shelf that keeps the CV located and firm against the C-clip. The entire "shelf" is the problem. This issue will exist on both stock and lifted trucks. Lift does not change things much at all. It's the total travel of your suspension that causes the issue. So when the front axle is in the air the rubber boot is rubbing and wearing against this shelf.

C-Mack, thanks for making me question things. Luckily I took a pic prior to removing the shaft and was able to note where the boot was. It was actually very close to the location of the stock boot. Resetting the boot allowed me to locate it on the shaft again for better visual. I am thinking the boot is literally just folding. This constant fold eventually kills the boot.

Sorry if this is all a bit haphazard, but I am just documenting my thought process in case yall have some other insight that may help.

 

[C-Mack]

C-Mack, thanks for making me question things. Luckily I took a pic prior to removing the shaft and was able to note where the boot was. It was actually very close to the location of the stock boot. Resetting the boot allowed me to locate it on the shaft again for better visual. I am thinking the boot is literally just folding. This constant fold eventually kills the boot.

Sorry if this is all a bit haphazard, but I am just documenting my thought process in case yall have some other insight that may help.

Yeah that was my thinking as well. I noticed on one of pictures of the new Terra boot you shared where it looks like you have a socket installed to simulate the shaft there are three faint lines where the rubber is folding up on itself, like a fat belly fold, and with time, dirt and constant rotating the boot is slowly being abraded away until it fails. For sure a pinched boot can happen but I tend to lean toward the boot simply rubbing against itself where it is tightly folded. I hope that makes sense?

 

[Dokatd]

Yeah that was my thinking as well. I noticed on one of pictures of the new Terra boot you shared where it looks like you have a socket installed to simulate the shaft there are three faint lines where the rubber is folding up on itself, like a fat belly fold, and with time, dirt and constant rotating the boot is slowly being abraded away until it fails. For sure a pinched boot can happen but I tend to lean toward the boot simply rubbing against itself where it is tightly folded. I hope that makes sense?

Yep, more or less I think.

I'm still baffled by the broken C-clip though. And shocked it held on just long enough for me to get it in my shop.