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Front and rear diff locks or just centre diff lock

OK.

My understanding is..
Traction control brakes a spinning wheel without reducing power.


I haven't experienced that from the ESC. The times the ESC reacted it slowed my down.

The old thread called it BTC...wrong. Electronic Stability Control is correct.

Brake Traction Controls

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The Grenadier Forum
https://www.theineosforum.com › threads › brake-tracti...




15 Oct 2023 — The Grenadier does have Brake Traction Control (BTC), although Ineos call it Electronic Traction Control (ETC) in the brochure.
 
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ESC is also automatically disengaged when the centre diff is locked in high range... as I discovered this afternoon preparing to scoot along the beach towards Teewah village on the Noosa North Shore luckily evading the incoming tide (we were a tad later than planned). My son's (raised) Subaru Forester led the way ...the Subaru seemed to float over the surface like a sand crab...
As for the Grenadier, tyres at 22psi, 40-55kmh , high range, centre diff locked, first time the new t/f case had been put to proper use since it was installed 11 months and just 2000km ago🫣 ... "Very happy chappy"😊
I drove a Subaru on that beach in the early 70's...I was impressed with the ride,it floated as you say, no weight but on the other hand now with the Gren power and weight it just eats it up...I did 3 days on Fraser, high range centre locked with 18psi...absolutely brilliant 💪 (y)
 
I am new to the forum and just about to buy my first Grenadier. I have had defenders for the last 15 years and sold my 110 pickup last year. I do a reasonable amount of off road as I shoot and have a gun dog. I also like to go off road but nothing as serious as some of the stuff you see on Youtube rock crawling. I went for a test drive in a trialmaster and used the central diff lock and the front and rear diff locks but the course we were on was easily handled by the centre diff lock on its own. With my defenders I only ever had a centre diff lock and never got stuck anywhere. I have found the Grenadier I am looking for in all respects other than it doesn't have the front and rear diff locks as an option. So the advice I am looking for is just how much do I need the separate diff locks. Am I likely to regret it if I just go for the centre diff lock? That's all I have ever been used to. Thanks guys.
You will regret not having the front, rear and center diff locks. Just wait until you try to resell it and don’t have a fully spec’d ineos. Get it! You may not use it but you will have it and it doesn’t cost too much!
 
They can't be added later so your decision is final.
You need to decide if you will never need/want the diff locks and go from there.
Just get the full package or and up like a lot of the early grenadiers that are undesirable as they were spec’d for cheap pricing and not for the the purpose of the vehicle is!
 
OK.

My understanding is..

Normal road driving, ESC acts to reduce over or understeer by braking a single wheel. Traction control reduces power of a wheel slip is detected.

Off Road driving (with the off road button active) ESC is inactive until 80 kph. Traction control brakes a spinning wheel without reducing power.

How well this has been implemented is another debate.
Hopefully this will help understand ESC and why it is more about on a bitumen road than off/dirt roads
When traveling on dirt roads I find it best to Centre lock taking away the ESC because you drift more in corners and don't won't the car pulling you up.

The Difference Between Stability Control & Traction Control


Big Box Cars | Salisbury QLD
https://www.bigboxcars.com.au › bigbox-motoring-advice
 
Dont even bother getting a gren that isnt fully loaded up. I was on the fence on the factory winch cause of the cost. Now reading the threads about aftermarket winch installs I am so happy I decided to check that box on my build.
 
Dont even bother getting a gren that isnt fully loaded up. I was on the fence on the factory winch cause of the cost. Now reading the threads about aftermarket winch installs I am so happy I decided to check that box on my build.
I didn't want the winch but decided to cover my arse and optioned the front tow hitch.
It comes with everything needed to fit the winch later if wanted.
View: https://youtube.com/shorts/m-HwP35Nfkw?si=z38KYufJDk80ID-R
 
I am new to the forum and just about to buy my first Grenadier. I have had defenders for the last 15 years and sold my 110 pickup last year. I do a reasonable amount of off road as I shoot and have a gun dog. I also like to go off road but nothing as serious as some of the stuff you see on Youtube rock crawling. I went for a test drive in a trialmaster and used the central diff lock and the front and rear diff locks but the course we were on was easily handled by the centre diff lock on its own. With my defenders I only ever had a centre diff lock and never got stuck anywhere. I have found the Grenadier I am looking for in all respects other than it doesn't have the front and rear diff locks as an option. So the advice I am looking for is just how much do I need the separate diff locks. Am I likely to regret it if I just go for the centre diff lock? That's all I have ever been used to. Thanks guys.
Welcome....the Center Diff Lock is all MOST people will need traversing dirt roads, light to medium mud, gravel, snow, etc. Low gear offroad, High gear onroad in poor conditions....and locked center diff will go a long way. Where the rear and front locker comes in is if doing a bit of off-camber where one or two wheels are lifted and vehicle is twisted....going up ledges....very deep mud holes...or if you are doing any of the Green Laning I see on YouTube on the All 4 Wheels channel..with some of the heavily rutted stuff.
I have a gun dog as well and did get the F & R lockers on Trialmaster as I hunt alone...and dont want a winch on this one unless forced...so hoping being triple locked with a pair of MaxTrax boards or similar....and a strap as last resort to hook to someone that passes by would be enough. I have mud and sand here locally in southeast US....and clay mud, sand, snow, etc when I go out to Kansas, Iowa, etc to chase pheasants and hopefully this year Hungarian Partridge and Sharptails as well.
I think you need to really look at what 90% of roads or surfaces are for your offroading to be honest. I like the peace of mind with the lockers especially without a winch weighting down my front. If you are going to the same places, same conditions, same roads and lanes as before...and NEVER got stuck where you couldnt dig or get yourself out....then likely will be fine.
Good excuse to share my pup and some adventures with quail, pheasant, waterfowl, and blood tracking deer last couple years. LOL
 

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Now reading the threads about aftermarket winch installs I am so happy I decided to check that box on my build.
To be fair, installing an aftermarket winch and bumper was probably the fastest on a Grenadier than anything else I've owned; and even without the high amp switch panel, the wiring is already right where you want it.
 
Dont even bother getting a gren that isnt fully loaded up. I was on the fence on the factory winch cause of the cost. Now reading the threads about aftermarket winch installs I am so happy I decided to check that box on my build.

If you're never going to seriously off road it, why would you want the lockers? I've had lockers on SOOOO many SUV's/trucks and I've never used them. Two range rovers ago... since the rear locker engages every time you park, it eventually went bad and I was stuck with rear lockers and trouble codes until I could repair... Prior cars I'd cycle them only to keep them limber and operational, but eventually they'd just seize up from lack of use. Even center lock, the one time I was stuck in a discovery, the links were seized up from lack of use... Though if you ARE going to seriously off road the rig, no brainer. Not sure if the Ineos cycles them itself but if it doesn't if you don't use it, you lose it.
 
If you're never going to seriously off road it, why would you want the lockers? I've had lockers on SOOOO many SUV's/trucks and I've never used them. Two range rovers ago... since the rear locker engages every time you park, it eventually went bad and I was stuck with rear lockers and trouble codes until I could repair... Prior cars I'd cycle them only to keep them limber and operational, but eventually they'd just seize up from lack of use. Even center lock, the one time I was stuck in a discovery, the links were seized up from lack of use... Though if you ARE going to seriously off road the rig, no brainer. Not sure if the Ineos cycles them itself but if it doesn't if you don't use it, you lose it.
I have had a bunch of Range Rovers and Land Rovers and own one now. I have never heard of a rear diff lock engaging when you put it in park. I don't understand why it would. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the electric parking brake?
 
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Sounds like a consensus about the diff locks. I watched this YOutube from Agile Off-road and it is surprising how little traction control there is. This is consistent with other tests I have seen. The Grenadier really needs the diff locks. Coming from the landrover world I have to get used to this. There are other tests that show that Toyota has some of the best traction control … to the point of barely needing locking diffs.

View: https://youtu.be/fY7HKRZAmN4?si=KT3T5V5A5nY7_Www


View: https://youtu.be/URuanFs17oY?si=VMar3xYJphcTA09R
 
Sounds like a consensus about the diff locks. I watched this YOutube from Agile Off-road and it is surprising how little traction control there is. This is consistent with other tests I have seen. The Grenadier really needs the diff locks. Coming from the landrover world I have to get used to this. There are other tests that show that Toyota has some of the best traction control … to the point of barely needing locking diffs.

View: https://youtu.be/fY7HKRZAmN4?si=KT3T5V5A5nY7_Www


View: https://youtu.be/URuanFs17oY?si=VMar3xYJphcTA09R
Good or bad I think the Grenadier and Quartermaster need the diff locks as the electronics is pretty much non-existent.
Like many Youtubers these guys at about 5:45 wait until they get stuck to engage the diff locks and then a miracle happens.
Not sure why the centre and rear weren't engaged from start but anyway.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHIOsw5I5HU
 
I have had a bunch of Range Rovers and Land Rovers and own one now. I have never heard of a rear diff lock engaging when you put it in park. I don't understand why it would. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the electric parking brake?

It doesn't engage when you put it in park, I did say "when you park" maybe confusing... it engages when you're parked up and shut it off. Or it at least cycles, it is explained in the operation area of the service manual on both l322/l405. When it fails, it hard faults everything like ABS/EAS/Trans/etc and is a total nightmare to replace... It sits ontop of the diff, people go as far as just cutting a hole in the boot to get at it. I dropped the diff on my l322 to access it... thankfully never an issue on my 405s. On a grenadier I imagine it's pretty easy to replace if equipped, on a range rover not so much... which... this type of thing is why I stop buying range rovers, it is always something and the service procedure is a wall of txt every single time haha.
 
It doesn't engage when you put it in park, I did say "when you park" maybe confusing... it engages when you're parked up and shut it off. Or it at least cycles, it is explained in the operation area of the service manual on both l322/l405. When it fails, it hard faults everything like ABS/EAS/Trans/etc and is a total nightmare to replace... It sits ontop of the diff, people go as far as just cutting a hole in the boot to get at it. I dropped the diff on my l322 to access it... thankfully never an issue on my 405s. On a grenadier I imagine it's pretty easy to replace if equipped, on a range rover not so much... which... this type of thing is why I stop buying range rovers, it is always something and the service procedure is a wall of txt every single time haha.
Crazy. I have never hear of that happening. The grenadier is a more traditional unit that is integrated into the diff internals like on any Dana axle. I haven't heard of one failing you but I imagine the replacement procedure would be similar to a Dana axle. Of course, we don't know yet because we don't have repair manuals yet.
 
Crazy. I have never hear of that happening. The grenadier is a more traditional unit that is integrated into the diff internals like on any Dana axle. I haven't heard of one failing you but I imagine the replacement procedure would be similar to a Dana axle. Of course, we don't know yet because we don't have repair manuals yet.
Oh interesting, thanks for the info! Yes, I'd really like a service manual and some diagnostics. I have warranty for quite some time but prefer to just work on my own stuff vs a trip to the dealer for resets. As for the range rover diff motor, at least with an l322 you should hear it running every time you shut off the car, or key on. Mine began making a strange squeaking noise, faults occasionally but eventually corrected itself with a key on/off... until it just seized one day. I knew I was on borrowed time though. The 405 it doesn't seem to be an issue like it was on 322's.
 
Crazy. I have never hear of that happening. The grenadier is a more traditional unit that is integrated into the diff internals like on any Dana axle. I haven't heard of one failing you but I imagine the replacement procedure would be similar to a Dana axle. Of course, we don't know yet because we don't have repair manuals yet.
Diff locks are Eaton/Harrop electrically operated units.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT_H6rpd-Ck
 
My Trialmaster is a farm worker. We are on clay. So, ground is like concrete half the year and slop the other half bar two weeks in between where you can mould it.

I replaced my 2015 Puma 90 after being loaned an IG for the weekend and taking it across the clay rutted uphill fields. It needed the lockers on those, as you just dig a hole if you stop. Especially if pulling a muck trailer into the wet slop over winter. As it happens, I haven't had to use the lockers much on my own one but there have been a couple of times where it made it so much easier to do so and had I not had them, I may have been calling out a tractor.

Just over a month ago, a disco 2 got stuck in the tractor ruts. It was a working disco 2 (tatty and a bit custom addons) but it couldn't get out and was just digging a hole. I got it out with the IG and then drove over the same bit with lockers on and made the disco look really bad.

Wet grass on hills and clay need as much support as you can get. So, I would go with the lockers and use the buggers and don't wait until you get stuck.
 
I have had a bunch of Range Rovers and Land Rovers and own one now. I have never heard of a rear diff lock engaging when you put it in park. I don't understand why it would. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the electric parking brake?
It kind of makes sense - to prevent the truck from rolling if the driveshaft or one of the axleshafts fail. It has never been implemented in Classics or P38As, so my guess is that it is L322 and later.
 
My Trialmaster is a farm worker. We are on clay. So, ground is like concrete half the year and slop the other half bar two weeks in between where you can mould it.

I replaced my 2015 Puma 90 after being loaned an IG for the weekend and taking it across the clay rutted uphill fields. It needed the lockers on those, as you just dig a hole if you stop. Especially if pulling a muck trailer into the wet slop over winter. As it happens, I haven't had to use the lockers much on my own one but there have been a couple of times where it made it so much easier to do so and had I not had them, I may have been calling out a tractor.

Just over a month ago, a disco 2 got stuck in the tractor ruts. It was a working disco 2 (tatty and a bit custom addons) but it couldn't get out and was just digging a hole. I got it out with the IG and then drove over the same bit with lockers on and made the disco look really bad.

Wet grass on hills and clay need as much support as you can get. So, I would go with the lockers and use the buggers and don't wait until you get stuck.
I had a large/heavy load in the back of mine and had to reverse across a friends lawn that was slightly uphill and wet.
I used low range locked up just to avoid any wheel spin that would have damaged his beautiful front lawn.
It was like a putting green.
you could see where I had driven but no damage at all to the grass.
Next day you couldn't even see where I had been
 
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