Diff locks (operation)

[Tazzieman]

Youtube heroes go at things like a bull at a gate.
Those of us who can't afford to write off a $100K vehicle

But if you do this sort of thing you can afford it! (But don't travel alone , and don't wear crocs around your neck!)

View: https://youtu.be/rRkcT_yqFZ0

 

[Boston Boy]

If you are riding around, and then get stuck, you should get out of the vehicle and hand the keys to someone else.
You should look at the terrain ahead and decide what is required before you get into trouble.
Select off road mode early
If it looks muddy then probably best to lock the centre diff before entering the mud.
Decide if low range is best.
If it includes water, or is a steep dusty/loose rocky hill, then lock the rear diff first and maybe think about the front diff if it is fairly straight.
Slow and steady with careful planning and as much control as possible reduces the chance you will get stuck, break something, or as often happens run into someone coming along the track the other way.

I am probably not as wise as you claim to be. I got stuck once in our D3 after pulling over near the end of a grass covered field that turned out to be grass sitting on two feet of clay mud. All four wheels sunk into an essentially friction-free muck. My brother had to tow me out with his truck. So.... there are situations where it would really be nice to to be able to engage lockers from a stopped position.

 

[DCPU]

Is it that the lockers are not engaging or rather they are engaged but the sensors & software are not confirming the engagement? At this stage I would have more faith in the Eton lockers actually working when requested than the Ineos buggy software recognising they have started or stopped working.

It's the Ineos buggy software that has to recognise that you are in the right "pre conditions" before it will allow the request...

 

[DaveB]

I am probably not as wise as you claim to be. I got stuck once in our D3 after pulling over near the end of a grass covered field that turned out to be grass sitting on two feet of clay mud. All four wheels sunk into an essentially friction-free muck. My brother had to tow me out with his truck. So.... there are situations where it would really be nice to to be able to engage lockers from a stopped position.

There are always going to be exceptions but they should be extremely rare and with care they can be avoided in 99% of cases.
Common to see people bogged in sand and then they start to air down their tyres.

 

[Tazzieman]

It's the Ineos buggy software that has to recognise that you are in the right "pre conditions" before it will allow the request...

In other words , vehicular foreplay

 

[Shopkeep]

It's the Ineos buggy software that has to recognise that you are in the right "pre conditions" before it will allow the request...

Where do the wires from the lockers terminate? As someone else mentioned might be easier to just bypass the pre conditions and wire directly to the provided switches or another set of contacts elsewhere. I take it they are just a power supply: power active = locked, power off = open?

 

[DaveB]

Where do the wires from the lockers terminate? As someone else mentioned might be easier to just bypass the pre conditions and wire directly to the provided switches or another set of contacts elsewhere. I take it they are just a power supply: power active = locked, power off = open?

It may have a flow on effect to other parts of the software if you disconnect them.

 

[ADVAW8S]

It may have a flow on effect to other parts of the software if you disconnect them.

Like the ESC

 

[Shopkeep]

Like the ESC

So, if you wired them direct to separate switches on a separate circuit and safely terminate the current wiring this would not impact the ESC? You would still activate off road mode before using minimizing any ESC intervention. When engaged the wheels should be rotating at the same rate so ESC would not want to interfere anyway?

 

[DaveB]

So, if you wired them direct to separate switches on a separate circuit and safely terminate the current wiring this would not impact the ESC? You would still activate off road mode before using minimizing any ESC intervention. When engaged the wheels should be rotating at the same rate so ESC would not want to interfere anyway?

I was thinking that the vehicle would know it has the difflocks installed and would check them on startup.
when it just received open circuit wires it would pull up a fault

 

[ADVAW8S]

So, if you wired them direct to separate switches on a separate circuit and safely terminate the current wiring this would not impact the ESC? You would still activate off road mode before using minimizing any ESC intervention. When engaged the wheels should be rotating at the same rate so ESC would not want to interfere anyway?

I was tossing out there, I have no clue.

 

[trobex]

I was tossing out there, I have no clue.

It would seem few doo on these issues.. IA manual included!

 

[Tom D]

I would guess that if the car was reprogrammed to the no diff locks version then the lockers could be wired separately and all would be good. The binnacle lights could be an issue though.

 

[Miki]

There seems to be a bit of confusion about how a diff lock engages/disengages.

In simple tems a pin is pushed into a hole in the inner and outer gear wheels which 'locks them' together.
The pin is spring loaded and will 'pop out' when there is no tension on the two gears or the 'pushing it in force' has been removed.
The holes are not much larger than the pin so if there is any tension between the 2 gear wheels the pin will stay in.

You can push a lever across to press the pin in or you can use an electricaly powered solenoid.
Both systems will allow the pin to move when it can, when the 2 holes are aligned and there is no stress or sideways force to hold the pin in or stop it going in.
There will be pressure/missaligment when 1 wheel is turning at a different speed to the other on the same axle.
There will be tension if 1 wheel was turning faster than the other and the axle isn't 'relaxed'.
There are only so many holes you can have in the gears so engaging a diff won't always be instant.

Gently moving forwards or backwards will release any tension and allow the pin to drop in or spring out.
More force can be applied to push the pin in than pull it out so it's easier to engage than disengage and diff lock.
You can always tell if a landrovers center diff has been well used as it drops in and out easily whereas a new/reconditioned one takes a bit af careful alignment a gentle rocking or revesing movement.
You can't just engage the lock, you have to get the holes to line up.

 

[AnD3rew]

There seems to be a bit of confusion about how a diff lock engages/disengages.

In simple tems a pin is pushed into a hole in the inner and outer gear wheels which 'locks them' together.
The pin is spring loaded and will 'pop out' when there is no tension on the two gears or the 'pushing it in force' has been removed.
The holes are not much larger than the pin so if there is any tension between the 2 gear wheels the pin will stay in.

You can push a lever across to press the pin in or you can use an electricaly powered solenoid.
Both systems will allow the pin to move when it can, when the 2 holes are aligned and there is no stress or sideways force to hold the pin in or stop it going in.
There will be pressure/missaligment when 1 wheel is turning at a different speed to the other on the same axle.
There will be tension if 1 wheel was turning faster than the other and the axle isn't 'relaxed'.
There are only so many holes you can have in the gears so engaging a diff won't always be instant.

Gently moving forwards or backwards will release any tension and allow the pin to drop in or spring out.
More force can be applied to push the pin in than pull it out so it's easier to engage than disengage and diff lock.
You can always tell if a landrovers center diff has been well used as it drops in and out easily whereas a new/reconditioned one takes a bit af careful alignment a gentle rocking or revesing movement.
You can't just engage the lock, you have to get the holes to line up.

See the video from Eaton Harrop posted earlier, the design has changed a bit and the pin now pushes a locking ring into place instead of going into a hole, however it is still true that if under tension it may not engage or release immediately. You can try backwards and forwards, but be aware that if you change direction, in theory anyway the locker would disengage and then reengage I believe. However it may help relieve tension in the system if trying to disengage.

 

[Oskar]

There seems to be a bit of confusion about how a diff lock engages/disengages.

In simple tems a pin is pushed into a hole in the inner and outer gear wheels which 'locks them' together.
The pin is spring loaded and will 'pop out' when there is no tension on the two gears or the 'pushing it in force' has been removed.
The holes are not much larger than the pin so if there is any tension between the 2 gear wheels the pin will stay in.

You can push a lever across to press the pin in or you can use an electricaly powered solenoid.
Both systems will allow the pin to move when it can, when the 2 holes are aligned and there is no stress or sideways force to hold the pin in or stop it going in.
There will be pressure/missaligment when 1 wheel is turning at a different speed to the other on the same axle.
There will be tension if 1 wheel was turning faster than the other and the axle isn't 'relaxed'.
There are only so many holes you can have in the gears so engaging a diff won't always be instant.

Gently moving forwards or backwards will release any tension and allow the pin to drop in or spring out.
More force can be applied to push the pin in than pull it out so it's easier to engage than disengage and diff lock.
You can always tell if a landrovers center diff has been well used as it drops in and out easily whereas a new/reconditioned one takes a bit af careful alignment a gentle rocking or revesing movement.
You can't just engage the lock, you have to get the holes to line up.

Thanks for your great explanation. This makes lot of sense. I shows that engaging and disengaging needs some understanding of how things work. In principle the description in the Manual from IA is not too bad. But you also do not want to confuse people with too many details.

 

[DCPU]

Thanks for your great explanation.

Yes, but is it correct?

 

[Tazzieman]

Yes, but is it correct?

Some kind body needs to author the Grenadier version of this old classic

 

[ECrider]

.

 

[DCPU]

I think I have the updated version: