Diff Locks in High Lock

[Tom D]

Barking is improved because you are tying the larger front discs and calipers to the smaller rear ones. The effect is that some of the front breaking force is transferred to the rear wheels.
In my old defenders if I had to do an emergency stop, especially with a trailer on I would instinctively slap the T case into locked. It definitely shortened the stoping distance. It saved me rear ending someone on at least a couple of occasions. I have never done it in the Grenadier partly because it has ABS and pretty good brakes, and partly because I'm a more sensible driver these days. A defender with no ABS will lock the front wheels long before the rears, Locking the CDL prevents this.

In terms of handling I'm not sure of the science, ASPW did a video on it once where they put a 4x4 on a skid pan with a trailer, it handled much better in 4wd.

By far the biggest reason to lock the CDL off road however is if you have to reverse down a steep slippery hill, (think failed hill climb) 10x this if you are towing.
When pointing uphill there's less weight on the front wheels, which is the opposite of hard braking when going forward where more weight is added to the front wheels. This lack of weight results in a lack of grip. So on a reverse decent light braking will still result in front wheel lockup, or acceleration if you have ABS as the ABS will be off more than its on. Locked front wheels can't steer and you end up with a very uncontrolled decent, potentially sliding sideways and rolling. Or a jack knifed trailer..
I'll try and find the video from Lord White.

 

[Tom D]

Found it.
There's a bit at 2:00 minutes and the skid pan starts around 13:00...

View: https://youtu.be/TOweeVYkyps?si=3arynASRpLZ-OzCY

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

Robert Pepper has a good video about the benefits of CDL for steep descents, I’ll try to find it

 

[Zimm]

Barking is improved because you are tying the larger front discs and calipers to the smaller rear ones. The effect is that some of the front breaking force is transferred to the rear wheels.

What you're doing in a non abs vehicle is forcing the wheels rotate at the same speed and hopefully prevent rear wheel lockup, and keeping the car straight. hopefully thats beneficial, and you're not turning while braking. All things considered, I'll take modern ABS given the choice. It'll be more effective in more circumstances..

 

[MileHigh]

Any comments about a limited slip in the rear as opposed to open or locked, or really limited-slip or locked?

 

[AaronS]

Found it.
There's a bit at 2:00 minutes and the skid pan starts around 13:00...

View: https://youtu.be/TOweeVYkyps?si=3arynASRpLZ-OzCY

Even more importantly (IMO) is that the truck feels much more planted and in control when in 4wd (or for the Grenadier, Center Diff Lock).

You can lock the center and pretty much any speed as long as all four wheels are going the same speed (straight line), and you can go pretty much any speed with the center locked. The "problem" with faster speeds is that it is easy to forget to unlock when the road/track becomes paved.

 

[AaronS]

Any comments about a limited slip in the rear as opposed to open or locked, or really limited-slip or locked?

Depends on the LSD. I used to run an Eaton Detroit in the rear and an Eaton TruTrack in the front of my Disco... it was wonderful. Other that the occasional BANG/CLUNK out of the rear end (usually on uphill paved twisty roads), I never thought about it I just always seemed to have traction.

I have friends who ran TruTracks front and rear... no BANG/CLUNKs but there was definitely more traction control/driver brake input required for the same level of traction.

That said... my Disco came with open front and rear diffs. I got a HUGE deal on the Eatons hence why I went with them.

I do prefer lockers that I can turn on and off. It allows me to be more in touch with the traction I am dealing with and can decide if I want the FRT/RR diffs locked or open. (As example, I prefer FRT/RR to be open on poor traction, side-slope climbs).

If I built a truck to be a mall-crawler that I used as a ski vehicle... I might consider an LSD. But... that said... if I wanted a mall-crawler, ski truck, I'd probably go with a IFS truck.

 

[Zimm]

If moving on Ice, I wouldn't lock my center diff. I'd only touch the lockers if trying to move from a stand still. When locked The binding you feel on dry pavement will the force that will cause at least one wheel to break free in a slight turn. The ineos unlocked tcase is great for everyday driving in most conditions.

 

[AaronS]

If moving on Ice, I wouldn't lock my center diff. I'd only touch the lockers if trying to move from a stand still. When locked The binding you feel on dry pavement will the force that will cause at least one wheel to break free in a slight turn. The ineos unlocked tcase is great for everyday driving in most conditions.

Yep, similar to my example of loose side-slope climb... on slippery snow/ice I'd prefer things to be open. Though, I did find the Detroit/TruTrack combo wasn't bad on snow/ice if the center diff was open... so some LSD can be ok. (I still prefer select-ability.)

 

[trobex]

I have only used the centre lock in low range so far and haven't come across any time I wanted the centre or rear locked in high range.
I haven't driven on snow or high speed sand though.
Fastest I have gone with centre diff locked is about 60 KMH

What situation are you in that you are using high centre lock?

Centre lock and 115kph on hard sand... it can do it.

 

[Commodore]

We need a wiring work around for the axle lockers. We don’t need a damn camper telling us when and which locker we can engage. They are electric. How hard can it be to send a lock signal from a wired switch. Just cut the computer out of it entirely. John at AO says that it is on the CAN bus and not a simple 12v signal like you find on a bronco. I find that hard to believe but John knows his shit. He mentioned that it was on his todo list.

 

[AaronS]

We need a wiring work around for the axle lockers. We don’t need a damn camper telling us when and which locker we can engage. They are electric. How hard can it be to send a lock signal from a wired switch. Just cut the computer out of it entirely. John at AO says that it is on the CAN bus and not a simple 12v signal like you find on a bronco. I find that hard to believe but John knows his shit. He mentioned that it was on his todo list.

John's todo list is long...

 

[Max]

I have only used the centre lock in low range so far and haven't come across any time I wanted the centre or rear locked in high range.
I haven't driven on snow or high speed sand though.

ESC [Electronic stability control] is a safe guard for stability on and off road wet or dry. To turn off the ESC, select CDL or Off Road mode.

On dirt roads at speed IMO it is best to have CDL and you can have that peace of mind when you start moving in corners the brakes aren't going to come on.
In powder sand and the ESC is on, it will brake the vehicle and stop you in your tracks. Has happened to me entering the powder sand at Inskip Point. Had to select low range, RDL and I reversed out.

 

[bnebenda]

I 100% agree, but I understand the Ineos mentality. Realistically 99% of owners will use it wrong and try to claim warranty. It would never happen, but I would very quickly sign a "warranty voided" terms and conditions in regards to locker use. Some day maybe the CAN Bus will be fully decoded and we can create an electronic bypass.

While I disagree with your 99% estimate I seriously consider to add switches to my car to bypass the ECU logic. The Toyota LC turn knob seems to be a viable alternative (well knowing that such a „fix“ would probably void the warranty) Locking an Eaton locker is simple: Just send current to the magnet.

 

[bnebenda]

Here is a deep dive into the GKN e-locker in the broncos. I can't tell you if it is as strong as the Eaton e-locker we have but I can promise you that it is actually instantaneous and works very well. Also notice that it is just a simple 12v feed. Apply 12v to the wire and the locker engages. I wish it was that simple on our trucks. I would just wire them to their own switches and have complete control. There are situations where you want to use a front locker and not the rear.

M220 e-Locker Differential Deep Dive Overview - skip if you're TLDR prone...

This is actually the first thread I've started here. In case anyone is interested, I put together this look at workings of the M220 e-locking differential. I got my hands on a sample part through work for development purposes. I thought it would be interesting to show it in depth, going through...

www.bronco6g.com

You can send current to the lockers in the grenadier. Tap the wire on the way from the locker to the fuse box (no need to disable the original modes) the lockers are engaged via relays so you can safely just energize them in parallel) The fuse/relay box would be a good place to add the tap, however the relay for the front locker is in the engine compartment under coolant reservoir (at least for Petrol LHD vehicles I know this for sure) and access to that fuse box is -well- difficult (officially requires to remove the coolant reservoir)

 

[bnebenda]

Just watched this video about an unimog and saw the 4x4 system and the pneumatic diff lock system (both rear and front) explained:

View: https://youtu.be/mPAhZJMXAUw?si=GOTRIwqQ99_Is4Eh&t=252
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View attachment 7901949

Just wow, how easy is that! Just a flick of a switch, going from normal to 4x4, to diff lock, in under a second.

The grenadier preached simplification, this is how the diff lock system should have worked (with rear and front seperate). If you compare that with the 6 step process of the grenny we are far from that. I have a MY23, so i don't even have the change of mind update, so before i can turn the locks back on, the system has to 'detect' it's off, before i can use them again, what a hassle. Hopefully, the change of mind update will become available for MY23.

I asked my dealer and placed a service call with INEOS more than 2 months ago whether the change of mind updates is going to be available for MY 23. So far no answer. My backup plan is to add switches myself accepting the risk to void warranty. But only if INEOS finally confirms that they will not make it available for MY23. Maybe there is a technical reason I do not see but as of today my best bet is that for the already sold MY23 they just don’t see an economical benefit to update the SW. There are many more updates (some not relevant for MY23) that are also not made available

 

[Commodore]

You can send current to the lockers in the grenadier. Tap the wire on the way from the locker to the fuse box (no need to disable the original modes) the lockers are engaged via relays so you can safely just energize them in parallel) The fuse/relay box would be a good place to add the tap, however the relay for the front locker is in the engine compartment under coolant reservoir (at least for Petrol LHD vehicles I know this for sure) and access to that fuse box is -well- difficult (officially requires to remove the coolant reservoir)

To be clear, you have confirmed the the axle locks are activated be sending 12V. That is how it is in the Bronco but I have been told that INEOS did it differently