CTEK Smartpass 120S problem

[Jean Mercier]

I have the double battery in my car and I have probably a CTEK problem.

My car is parked since yesterday without driving. My fridge was running, and this morning I saw my main battery was at 12V and my auxiliary at 12.80V.

The trickle charging of the main battery through the auxiliary battery doesn't seem to work.

I checked the warning lights, and according to the manual it means the auxiliary battery is too hot. But, the car didn't drive, the ambient temperature is 18°, and the battery doesn't feel hot.

Anyone any idea?
(CTEK 250 installed, but not solar panels connected)

 

[OkGo]

On my d250 and d250s there is a temp sensor that needs to be stuck onto the battery. You seem to have a d250se (?) does this not have the same wired temp sensor?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sWOyx9cBLxrB3RzuYWWsp the manual seems to think there is a sensor, what have you stuck it onto. It might be in contact with something else, that is getting warm in the sun (? Guess ?)

 

[TheDocAUS]

As battery ages they can deteriorate at different rates, but if the fridge is on the main battery it maybe drawing power faster than the trickle charge from the aux to the max, via the CTEK120S.

Look at the 24 hour graphs from each battery to see if there is a variance in power draws.

 

[Znarfgh]

I have the double battery in my car and I have probably a CTEK problem.

My car is parked since yesterday without driving. My fridge was running, and this morning I saw my main battery was at 12V and my auxiliary at 12.80V.

The trickle charging of the main battery through the auxiliary battery doesn't seem to work.




I checked the warning lights, and according to the manual it means the auxiliary battery is too hot. But, the car didn't drive, the ambient temperature is 18°, and the battery doesn't feel hot.

Anyone any idea?
(CTEK 250 installed, but not solar panels connected)

Is your fridge connected to the starter or auxiliary battery?

 

[Rok_Dr]

Interesting. I couldn’t find a description for only 2 flashing lights in the manual only 3. I also found the following document with a quick Google search which describes the LED error light flashing patterns in more detail. It’s a pity Ctek didn’t illustrate the positions of LEDs 1 to 4 but I interpret that they are the four central orange ones with 1 at the top and 2, 3 and 4 in a line below.
https://www.ctek.com/storage/28C7E7...d7c64cca8bf34ae67436258e/FAQ-NA-SMARTPASS.pdf

Perhaps the light pattern is indicating that start assist has been activated, as the Ctek manual notes a fault indication will be shown but I can’t see a matching light pattern for this in the error light section.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Jean Mercier]

To the 12V rear connector, therefore to the main battery

 

[Jean Mercier]

I checked the temperature sensor, it was stuck on the auxiliary battery, but the car and interior and battery were cold

On my d250 and d250s there is a temp sensor that needs to be stuck onto the battery. You seem to have a d250se (?) does this not have the same wired temp sensor?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.ctek.com/storage/C51B3E1AAB94F62928DD2ED3FED85942C07C57DA0B10D08B06A96963A7810281/00000000000000000000000000015925/pdf/media/6652a4901fd740f29693eda94efab665/D250SE-manual-low-UK-EN.pdf?srsltid=AfmBOorApyclwKpKN_a6_CxRj90VXj5v8_20PC_LIDs5gmhuLjyVKOdM&ved=2ahUKEwjUs6mO6omUAxVtdUEAHbnINUkQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sWOyx9cBLxrB3RzuYWWsp the manual seems to think there is a sensor, what have you stuck it onto. It might be in contact with something else, that is getting warm in the sun (? Guess ?)

 

[Jean Mercier]

Interesting. I couldn’t find a description for only 2 flashing lights in the manual only 3. I also found the following document with a quick Google search which describes the LED error light flashing patterns in more detail. It’s a pity Ctek didn’t illustrate the positions of LEDs 1 to 4 but I interpret that they are the four central orange ones with 1 at the top and 2, 3 and 4 in a line below.
https://www.ctek.com/storage/28C7E7...d7c64cca8bf34ae67436258e/FAQ-NA-SMARTPASS.pdf

Perhaps the light pattern is indicating that start assist has been activated, as the Ctek manual notes a fault indication will be shown but I can’t see a matching light pattern for this in the error light section.

Cheers
Steve

Steve, there is a more extensive manual of the SmartPass of 14 pages, and there you find the 4 leds error with two flashing. On the to Spain now, with bad internet connection, otherwise I could show you.

 

[Jean Mercier]

As battery ages they can deteriorate at different rates, but if the fridge is on the main battery it maybe drawing power faster than the trickle charge from the aux to the max, via the CTEK120S.

Look at the 24 hour graphs from each battery to see if there is a variance in power draws.

I had looked at the patterns of both batteries, and normally the trickle charging is very noticeable but, now nothing. The auxiliary battery doesn't deplete, and the main battery depleted each time the fridge is running. Therefore I still think it is the Smartpass and/or temperature sensor failing. Once home I will disconnect the Smartpass from the battery. Perhaps a "reset" will solve the problem . Lucky for me this happened in my last day of Morocco travel. I still have to drive to Belgium though.

 

[Rok_Dr]

Steve, there is a more extensive manual of the SmartPass of 14 pages, and there you find the 4 leds error with two flashing. On the to Spain now, with bad internet connection, otherwise I could show you.

Thanks Jean. Your smartpass manual must be a different edition. The PDF I have (also 14 pages) only mentions 3 flashing LEDs for over heating and single flashing LEDs for other error states. I’d be interested in seeing a copy, but there is no urgency from my side so perhaps when you get a chance after your trip.

Safe travels and I’m looking forward to more stunning pics

Cheers
Steve

 

[bakepl]

I don't think the pulsing charge every 3 seconds of the smartpass is designed to help power a fridge from the start battery. More likely is there to compensate somewhat for normal self discharge rate of the start battery i.e. very low discharge and not a fridge @ 5 or so amps.. could be wrong of course. For this reason I was using the smartpass 'consumer out' until Ineos removed that option, now I run the fridge off the aux battery via a victron smart battery protect as this ensures the Aux battery will still have a state of charge to assist the start battery if required. Seems to work well thus far.

 

[Skydance]

I’ve just had my car serviced from the dealer and I brought up and explained that my battery never reaches 80% Soc. I trickle charge my car overnight and it’s still sits at 75%.

As my battery is usually at 60% Soc, I’ve noticed that I don’t get a full DPF burn because the battery threshold hasn’t been reached. Usually I can tell when it’s needs a burn because the engine starts to vibrate at idle.

I been told, never trust the SOC on the screen because it’s not accurate. Apparently it needs resetting on the Ineos BMS software to tell it has a new battery. This calibrates the SOC and cannot be done by disconnecting the battery.

So I had it reset today and whilst driving home my Soc shot straight to 85% and also a DPF burn.

 

[Clark Kent]

I’ve just had my car serviced from the dealer and I brought up and explained that my battery never reaches 80% Soc. I trickle charge my car overnight and it’s still sits at 75%.

As my battery is usually at 60% Soc, I’ve noticed that I don’t get a full DPF burn because the battery threshold hasn’t been reached. Usually I can tell when it’s needs a burn because the engine starts to vibrate at idle.

I been told, never trust the SOC on the screen because it’s not accurate. Apparently it needs resetting on the Ineos BMS software to tell it has a new battery. This calibrates the SOC and cannot be done by disconnecting the battery.

So I had it reset today and whilst driving home my Soc shot straight to 85% and also a DPF burn.

Did this info about the SOC come from your conversation with the dealer or what you have learned elsewhere?
I last posted about the BMS here and mentioned the need for a reset after battery replacement on BMWs. Your info suggests the same process might be required for Grenadier.

 

[Skydance]

Did this info about the SOC come from your conversation with the dealer or what you have learned elsewhere?
I last posted about the BMS here and mentioned the need for a reset after battery replacement on BMWs. Your info suggests the same process might be required for Grenadier.

Yes direct from the dealer and only with the Ineos software too.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I been told, never trust the SOC on the screen because it’s not accurate.

Yep, I have been saying that for a while. Install a cheap battery monitor and you will get more accurate information overtime. Various monitors discussed here. The apps graphing function gives you get useful insight into trying to work out any problems.

 

[Clark Kent]

Yep, I have been saying that for a while. Install a cheap battery monitor and you will get more accurate information overtime. Various monitors discussed here. The apps graphing function gives you get useful insight into trying to work out any problems.

Kinda...

Cheap and useful but not accurate for SOC monitoring. You acknowledge this in your review summary.

The SOC from a voltage-based monitor wired directly across the battery is derived from a voltmeter that is coarsely calibrated to a discharge curve according to the battery type (chemistry). It's a realtime version of an SOC lookup table like this example:

A battery can display a similar voltage level for a wide SOC, especially lithium batteries which hold near constant voltage until a low SOC. Using this table again there is only 0.36 volts difference between 100% SOC and 70% SOC.
SOC is also affected by charge and discharge activity, temperature, and cell age. Interpreting the SOC by measuring the voltage is an approximation of what the SOC should be for that type of battery.

A voltage-based monitor is a useful device but if an owner wants a more accurate SOC they need to install a shunt-based monitor from a company like Renogy, Victron or Redarc.

 

[TheDocAUS]

When you look at the data from these apps regularly and console, like I do, you get a good approximation of the SOC and overall battery health.

Also, I had a two Redarc gauges (actually Autron gauges, but Redarc bought out Autron and just put their name on the gauges) in the Patrol for over 10 years using a Hall Effect Sensor, showing the amps being charged and voltage of the main and the aux batteries.

Voltage and how many amps each battery is taking is very useful. After 200,000km traveling in all sorts of Outback habitats, you get a practical working knowledge of your batteries and often can tell if a battery is beginning to fail. I now have a good understanding of the IG batteries as well, in my setup.

Only once I did not get a warning on a failing battery on the Patrol, which died overnight in the tropics. Even then the gauge quickly told me something was really wrong the next morning, before I left Darwin.

On the IG I look at the console amps and voltage when I drive and download the battery monitor data most days. For me, it is all about what you can and cannot do while in the field with your batteries and accessories. I monitor my car when travelling.

A bonus od the apps is the graphing tells you a great deal about what is going on with both batteries for diagnosis and preventative maintenance. If you install a Ancel BM300 you can also graph battery temps. I am testing one now in a battery box.

I am aware of the environmental variables when it comes to charging, but I am more aware of how to manage my batteries when in the field, my objective. Plus I cannot influence most environmental factors, just manage them.

Most people do not need a shunt or TVMS giving you precise details. For me, the cost outweighs the benefits.

My van has a TVMS but I do not feel short changed on the IG.