CTEK SMARTPASS 120S and 250SE DC to DC charger basic features and install information

[MilesD]

Jean

Do we continue with the Smartpass saga?

In the next picture, taken in a car recently delivered to Hedin Belgium, we will play a game, "please search for the 10 differences" with those who got a Smartpass box in the car:
View attachment 7825092
Result:

1. No Smartpass box in the car
2. No Smartpass manual in the car
3. A red warning sticker!
4. The lower right connector isn't a connector
5. No CTEK brand mentioned
6. to 10. I didn't find myself, perhaps Ineos or CTEK can help

My guess, we early birds had luck!
Like those who didn't order a utility (L-track) rail got those for free because the delivery of the other strips was delayed, those who ordered Trialmasters or cars with the full electrical options (second battery) got a full functional CTEK Smartpass instead of a less functional and cheaper CTEK because there were delivery delays!

This is a guess, of course, but a reasonable guess.

I already see worried or disappointed faces from those people who didn't get their cars yet!
I understand this is probably bad news!

I don't understand that Ineos, and their lurkers, didn't warn us here on this forum!

I still am not 100% sure of course, should be confirmed by Ineos.

I did ask my dealer to ask the following question to Ineos:
"What is the technical difference between the CTEK Smartpass in the Grenadier and a Standard CTEK Smartpass?"

And I still hope and believe that those who got the box, got the standard Smartpass!

Jean

Response from Ctek, which I think may muddy the water further.

Hello Miles,
I've asked out technicians about your question and received a response form them:
"Grenadier has no smart alternator. SMARTPASS is to recharge the Service battery, maintenance charge the starter battery and as a start assist function."

I confess to now being lost - but do have a shiny ctek branded 120 smart pass that came with the vehicle (twin battery option), a red cable unconnected, a 250se in readiness for solar etc, and 2 bus bars kindly supplied FOC by Ctek.

Am I incorrect in thinking Ineos have removed the smart alternator, for a std one? hence ctek installing white label 120’s?.

If so, then the red cable IS redundant, but I assume all other wiring to include 250 is relevant, and I can run a fridge from the 120 as ctek show in thier dwgs?.

 

[Logsplitter]

Jean

Jean

Response from Ctek, which I think may muddy the water further.

Hello Miles,
I've asked out technicians about your question and received a response form them:
"Grenadier has no smart alternator. SMARTPASS is to recharge the Service battery, maintenance charge the starter battery and as a start assist function."

I confess to now being lost - but do have a shiny ctek branded 120 smart pass that came with the vehicle (twin battery option), a red cable unconnected, a 250se in readiness for solar etc, and 2 bus bars kindly supplied FOC by Ctek.

Am I incorrect in thinking Ineos have removed the smart alternator, for a std one? hence ctek installing white label 120’s?.

If so, then the red cable IS redundant, but I assume all other wiring to include 250 is relevant, and I can run a fridge from the 120 as ctek show in thier dwgs?.

 

[Tinki]

Jean

Jean

Response from Ctek, which I think may muddy the water further.

Hello Miles,
I've asked out technicians about your question and received a response form them:
"Grenadier has no smart alternator. SMARTPASS is to recharge the Service battery, maintenance charge the starter battery and as a start assist function."

I confess to now being lost - but do have a shiny ctek branded 120 smart pass that came with the vehicle (twin battery option), a red cable unconnected, a 250se in readiness for solar etc, and 2 bus bars kindly supplied FOC by Ctek.

Am I incorrect in thinking Ineos have removed the smart alternator, for a std one? hence ctek installing white label 120’s?.

If so, then the red cable IS redundant, but I assume all other wiring to include 250 is relevant, and I can run a fridge from the 120 as ctek show in thier dwgs?.

My man Miles this post jusit opened pandoras box . ahhaha .

 

[DenisM]

I didn't think that the engine would meet Euro6 WITHOUT a smart alternator. ....

 

[DaBull]

Jean

Jean

Response from Ctek, which I think may muddy the water further.

Hello Miles,
I've asked out technicians about your question and received a response form them:
"Grenadier has no smart alternator. SMARTPASS is to recharge the Service battery, maintenance charge the starter battery and as a start assist function."

I confess to now being lost - but do have a shiny ctek branded 120 smart pass that came with the vehicle (twin battery option), a red cable unconnected, a 250se in readiness for solar etc, and 2 bus bars kindly supplied FOC by Ctek.

Am I incorrect in thinking Ineos have removed the smart alternator, for a std one? hence ctek installing white label 120’s?.

If so, then the red cable IS redundant, but I assume all other wiring to include 250 is relevant, and I can run a fridge from the 120 as ctek show in thier dwgs?.

The Ctek is a dark abyss of which we will never get out of.....DaBull

 

[ECrider]

got the mkii SMARTPass;

 

[bakepl]

got the mkii SMARTPass;

did a manual come with this mkii? (my mk1 came with the manual in the box under the front pass seat - no bus bars)

 

[AnD3rew]

Jean

Jean

Response from Ctek, which I think may muddy the water further.

Hello Miles,
I've asked out technicians about your question and received a response form them:
"Grenadier has no smart alternator. SMARTPASS is to recharge the Service battery, maintenance charge the starter battery and as a start assist function."

I confess to now being lost - but do have a shiny ctek branded 120 smart pass that came with the vehicle (twin battery option), a red cable unconnected, a 250se in readiness for solar etc, and 2 bus bars kindly supplied FOC by Ctek.

Am I incorrect in thinking Ineos have removed the smart alternator, for a std one? hence ctek installing white label 120’s?.

If so, then the red cable IS redundant, but I assume all other wiring to include 250 is relevant, and I can run a fridge from the 120 as ctek show in thier dwgs?.

This is getting ridiculous. I don’t really believe that the Grenadier doesn’t have a smart alternator. I can come up with at least half a dozen theories and ideas but none are useful without some actual information from INEOS.

This is actually the one thing from INEOS that is really annoying me, and that I can’t excuse, is their complete lack of information on the electrical systems and guidance on it.

They knew and even acknowledged early on that owners would want to accessorise and modify their vehicles and particularly run electrical accessories, hence the high load panel and aux battery system. But it’s next to useless without this kind of information to help owners. To the extent that we can actually know anything (limited) it currently appears to go against most/all of the conventional execution of these kinds of systems which makes it all the more imperative that they provide information on the operation, philosophy and usage of the electrical systems. It seems they got 80% of the way there with the high load electrical preparation and just gave up bofore adding plugs to the end of the wires and writing manuals and instructions.

INEOS if you are reading here please, it’s time to come out of hiding and provide some some answers and assistance. We can work with whatever you have done, but we need the baseline information to be able to do that safely, efficiently and effectively.

I understand you may not want to specifically give approval to change and modify systems, I get that, but you owe us the baseline information on which we can make our own decisions.

 

[ECrider]

did a manual come with this mkii? (my mk1 came with the manual in the box under the front pass seat - no bus bars)

no manual or box.

 

[Arkaig]

This is actually the one thing from INEOS that is really annoying me, and that I can’t excuse, is their complete lack of information on the electrical systems and guidance on it.

They knew and even acknowledged early on that owners would want to accessorise and modify their vehicles and particularly run electrical accessories, hence the high load panel and aux battery system. But it’s next to useless without this kind of information to help owners. To the extent that we can actually know anything (limited) it currently appears to go against most/all of the conventional execution of these kinds of systems which makes it all the more imperative that they provide information on the operation, philosophy and usage of the electrical systems. It seems they got 80% of the way there with the high load electrical preparation and just gave up bofore adding plugs to the end of the wires and writing manuals and instructions.

I agree.

 

[Tomdoc]

@AnD3rew Absolutely agree - this is a real problem.

 

[bakepl]

This is getting ridiculous. I don’t really believe that the Grenadier doesn’t have a smart alternator. I can come up with at least half a dozen theories and ideas but none are useful without some actual information from INEOS.

This is actually the one thing from INEOS that is really annoying me, and that I can’t excuse, is their complete lack of information on the electrical systems and guidance on it.

They knew and even acknowledged early on that owners would want to accessorise and modify their vehicles and particularly run electrical accessories, hence the high load panel and aux battery system. But it’s next to useless without this kind of information to help owners. To the extent that we can actually know anything (limited) it currently appears to go against most/all of the conventional execution of these kinds of systems which makes it all the more imperative that they provide information on the operation, philosophy and usage of the electrical systems. It seems they got 80% of the way there with the high load electrical preparation and just gave up bofore adding plugs to the end of the wires and writing manuals and instructions.

INEOS if you are reading here please, it’s time to come out of hiding and provide some some answers and assistance. We can work with whatever you have done, but we need the baseline information to be able to do that safely, efficiently and effectively.

I understand you may not want to specifically give approval to change and modify systems, I get that, but you owe us the baseline information on which we can make our own decisions.

Agree totally with lack of information and in particular the electricals but with the exception of JH on FB, lack of info (either part answers to questions or incorrect) has been the norm for this adventure. I'm not condoning it just is what it is.

Other than that and now I've pulled mine partially apart to install items the vehicle is a joy to work on. The smartpass seems to work as intended and has features I guess one might not want but they are there, like I'd prefer total isolation from the start battery and in one direction but is what it is from Ctek. E.g. the start assist in some respects is a good feature but I'd prefer a manual type of start assist for this.

Re the red wire...... (no not again) Ctek did get back to me and said 'if not sure if vehicle has smart alt or not just connect the red wire'. From that answer it appears the ctek once connected will use the red wire if it needs it. If it doesn't need it no damage done.

I've fitted a busbar to the consumer out of the Ctek to run a twin compressor and fridge/power outlets to take advantage of the low power cutoff (a feature I would need to have fitted if this device didn't have it built in). I've also used the 12v çompressor relay signal wire from under the back seat to trigger the Albright solenoid in the rear so I have power to the Nato plug when car is running - powers the van - easy enough.

I'll likely consider running the present power feed for the accessory fuse/relay module (one that fuses the exterior and footwell outlets etc) to the busbar from the Ctek as well. I'm waiting to see if a wiring diagram turns up for this one or in it's absence in the fullness of time (subjective I know)..... test the 80 amp outlet from the Ineos 'bolt' style fuse box to confirm this is the correct cable.

One thing left to do is a solar feed in for the Ctek 250 and may replace the DTP 25amp exterior plug that I'm not using for this - undecided.

The other is trying to find a 13pin plug that someone has cut off so I can scavenge the pins - so if anyone in Aus is replacing theirs with a 7 pin and throwing the 13 out I'd be happy to pay postage..

I'd dearly love Autel or Launch to bring out a bi-directional OBD tool - again in the fullness of time guess they will but I'd prefer to tour with one than without. Have a great day everyone.

 

[KDJDGrenadier]

Agree totally with lack of information and in particular the electricals but with the exception of JH on FB, lack of info (either part answers to questions or incorrect) has been the norm for this adventure. I'm not condoning it just is what it is.

Other than that and now I've pulled mine partially apart to install items the vehicle is a joy to work on. The smartpass seems to work as intended and has features I guess one might not want but they are there, like I'd prefer total isolation from the start battery and in one direction but is what it is from Ctek. E.g. the start assist in some respects is a good feature but I'd prefer a manual type of start assist for this.

Re the red wire...... (no not again) Ctek did get back to me and said 'if not sure if vehicle has smart alt or not just connect the red wire'. From that answer it appears the ctek once connected will use the red wire if it needs it. If it doesn't need it no damage done.

I've fitted a busbar to the consumer out of the Ctek to run a twin compressor and fridge/power outlets to take advantage of the low power cutoff (a feature I would need to have fitted if this device didn't have it built in). I've also used the 12v çompressor relay signal wire from under the back seat to trigger the Albright solenoid in the rear so I have power to the Nato plug when car is running - powers the van - easy enough.

I'll likely consider running the present power feed for the accessory fuse/relay module (one that fuses the exterior and footwell outlets etc) to the busbar from the Ctek as well. I'm waiting to see if a wiring diagram turns up for this one or in it's absence in the fullness of time (subjective I know)..... test the 80 amp outlet from the Ineos 'bolt' style fuse box to confirm this is the correct cable.

One thing left to do is a solar feed in for the Ctek 250 and may replace the DTP 25amp exterior plug that I'm not using for this - undecided.

The other is trying to find a 13pin plug that someone has cut off so I can scavenge the pins - so if anyone in Aus is replacing theirs with a 7 pin and throwing the 13 out I'd be happy to pay postage..

I'd dearly love Autel or Launch to bring out a bi-directional OBD tool - again in the fullness of time guess they will but I'd prefer to tour with one than without. Have a great day everyone.

Thanks Bakepl for the detailed post. Any pictures or part numbers for the busbar going to the consumer outlet would be great if you have time. Curious how you mounted it.

 

[bakepl]

Thanks Bakepl for the detailed post. Any pictures or part numbers for the busbar going to the consumer outlet would be great if you have time. Curious how you mounted it.

The busbar is one I had spare from a boat build. It really is overkill given the amps of the Ctek consumer out but fits well and solid like the car . (and don't forget still need to fuse devices from this busbar.) There's plenty of choice online or at marine/12 volt shops etc.

I have mounted it just behind the aux battery using two spare studs. Some are putting air compressors in this location but I have a twin compressor that due to size needs another location.

This is a similar busbar I have but you could go a lot lighter/more cost effective - mine has the M8 studs rather than M10:

Heavy Duty Bus Bar Power Distribution Box Terminal Block M8 300A Busbar 12V M10 | eBay

Genuine Australian Business: Fast Postage Next Business Day Dispatch Product Description: 1 X Red (Positive) M8 & 1 X Black (Negative) M10 Heavy Duty Combo Bus Bar Kit suitable for 12V 24V 36V & 48V systems. Premium quality heavy duty bus bar for use in Caravan, RV, Motorhome, Boat & Solar DC...

www.ebay.com.au

 

[TheDocAUS]

Thanks Bakepl for the detailed post. Any pictures or part numbers for the busbar going to the consumer outlet would be great if you have time. Curious how you mounted it.

Blue Seas makes some nice busbars and Swe Check also has a selection or you can use a busbar to join some modular midi fuse holders like this:



Remember to match the busbar, fuses and wiring to the ratings required on the ciruit.

 

[KDJDGrenadier]

The busbar is one I had spare from a boat build. It really is overkill given the amps of the Ctek consumer out but fits well and solid like the car . (and don't forget still need to fuse devices from this busbar.) There's plenty of choice online or at marine/12 volt shops etc.

I have mounted it just behind the aux battery using two spare studs. Some are putting air compressors in this location but I have a twin compressor that due to size needs another location.

This is a similar busbar I have but you could go a lot lighter/more cost effective - mine has the M8 studs rather than M10:

Heavy Duty Bus Bar Power Distribution Box Terminal Block M8 300A Busbar 12V M10 | eBay

Genuine Australian Business: Fast Postage Next Business Day Dispatch Product Description: 1 X Red (Positive) M8 & 1 X Black (Negative) M10 Heavy Duty Combo Bus Bar Kit suitable for 12V 24V 36V & 48V systems. Premium quality heavy duty bus bar for use in Caravan, RV, Motorhome, Boat & Solar DC...

www.ebay.com.au

View attachment 7825954

Great work there with the Busbar install. I am now thinking i will do the same as i have a few items i want to run off the consumer output from the 120S.

 

[DCPU]

Given the 80A output, something like this would work well:

Blue Sea Systems 5056 ST-Blade Water-Resistant Fuse Block With Screw Cover

Blue Sea Systems 5056 IP66 water-resistant standard blade fuse block accepting a wide range of cable sizes. Corrosion resistant for use in marine environments.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

 

[KDJDGrenadier]

Given the 80A output, something like this would work well:
View attachment 7825958

Blue Sea Systems 5056 ST-Blade Water-Resistant Fuse Block With Screw Cover

Blue Sea Systems 5056 IP66 water-resistant standard blade fuse block accepting a wide range of cable sizes. Corrosion resistant for use in marine environments.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

DCPU i have a compressor to connect but it draws a maximum of 35amps. I will need something a little larger as the Blue Sea System 5056 has a max of 25A per circuit. However it does look like a great bit of kit.

 

[DCPU]

You don't want to use the dedicated 40A compressor circuit already installed?

 

[Logsplitter]

Agree totally with lack of information and in particular the electricals but with the exception of JH on FB, lack of info (either part answers to questions or incorrect) has been the norm for this adventure. I'm not condoning it just is what it is.

Other than that and now I've pulled mine partially apart to install items the vehicle is a joy to work on. The smartpass seems to work as intended and has features I guess one might not want but they are there, like I'd prefer total isolation from the start battery and in one direction but is what it is from Ctek. E.g. the start assist in some respects is a good feature but I'd prefer a manual type of start assist for this.

Re the red wire...... (no not again) Ctek did get back to me and said 'if not sure if vehicle has smart alt or not just connect the red wire'. From that answer it appears the ctek once connected will use the red wire if it needs it. If it doesn't need it no damage done.

I've fitted a busbar to the consumer out of the Ctek to run a twin compressor and fridge/power outlets to take advantage of the low power cutoff (a feature I would need to have fitted if this device didn't have it built in). I've also used the 12v çompressor relay signal wire from under the back seat to trigger the Albright solenoid in the rear so I have power to the Nato plug when car is running - powers the van - easy enough.

I'll likely consider running the present power feed for the accessory fuse/relay module (one that fuses the exterior and footwell outlets etc) to the busbar from the Ctek as well. I'm waiting to see if a wiring diagram turns up for this one or in it's absence in the fullness of time (subjective I know)..... test the 80 amp outlet from the Ineos 'bolt' style fuse box to confirm this is the correct cable.

One thing left to do is a solar feed in for the Ctek 250 and may replace the DTP 25amp exterior plug that I'm not using for this - undecided.

The other is trying to find a 13pin plug that someone has cut off so I can scavenge the pins - so if anyone in Aus is replacing theirs with a 7 pin and throwing the 13 out I'd be happy to pay postage..

I'd dearly love Autel or Launch to bring out a bi-directional OBD tool - again in the fullness of time guess they will but I'd prefer to tour with one than without. Have a great day everyone.

Could you explain how you used the signal wire from the 40a supply in the battery compartment. I’m aware where the 40supply is for the compressor that seems to be permanently live but I can’t get my head around how you used that signal wire to turn on the rear solenoid for the nato plug. Thanks