Coil Springs (specs v build)

[Tom D]

Just to add to this, as I currently have a broken spring and I want to replace it with the +30mm versions ideally as part of the warranty repair. I have written to my dealer but have no reply as yet.

One thought I had is that I remember reading somewhere that the African spec versions were fitted with the taller spring from factory? Can anyone confirm this? They’ll presumably have a different part no. Can I ask African owners take a peek at their springs and check? That would be much appreciated.

It would be helpful if more recent owners helped to update the table in this thread, its a useful resource..

Cheers!

I got an update on this from Lynn. The springs are all the same height world wide, just different rates according to the spec.

 

[Tr182md]

Just checked. I am a Fieldmaster with the Rough pack, and the Electrical. No winch or Tow from factory but I have added both as well as sliders. US Petrol. I will be adding a rack and I will be towing about 3000 pounds off road.

Front Double green Circle
Rear Double Green Triangle.

 

[Clark Kent]

I got an update on this from Lynn. The springs are all the same height world wide, just different rates according to the spec.

This table is helpful.

 

[Tr182md]

I am still lost as to what to do. I measured from bottom of rim and the fender and i am 31” front and 32.5” rear. Just dropped it off for winch install which will add 70 pounds to front. I will also do a top bar at some point. When i pick it up tomorrow i can measure it again.

If i need springs can i just add some combination of lift which corrects my front sag but not really sure what to do in the rear since i want to keep the rake. My towing is only 10% of use at about 400 pounds on the hitch. I wonder if the small 1.7 lift and a metal cloak spacer in the back would be enough.

The problem with the HD spring is that even Eibach says on the website it is best to use under load.

This is an element of aftermarket addition of winch and bull bar i had not considered. Coming from Landrover world the airbags just auto adjust. Which i suppose is one answer for the rear. Airbags and some slightly beefier spring in front.

Are we ALL over thinking this?

 

[Clark Kent]

I don't know if you can overthink this stuff but coming from a long engineering background of course I would say that You could throw on a lift kit with beefy springs but it'll be a rough ride with compromised handling when it's not loaded up. There's also the front driveshaft angle and increased vehicle roof height to think about.

Here's my suggested approach to achieve this in a managed way without doing a HD lift kit.

• Before you do any/more mods get your vehicle weighed, including the front and rear axle weights. Clean out the vehicle but fill the fuel tank.
• Do any planned mods that will grossly impact weight, like winch, roof rack, bar work, etc.
• Load up the vehicle to your typical trip weight. Fill the fuel tank then weigh the vehicle again.
• Do the math for the total weight increase and front/rear axle loads (see below).
• Select and fit the new springs (also below).
• Add rear load assist airbags for towing to offset the hitch downforce (you know where to look).

Robert Pepper did a deep dive into 4WD payloads using the Grenadier as an example here. Note that he is using Australian weight and load limits which might be different to other markets.

Spring Selection.
Look at the symbols on your current installed springs. Look up their kg weight rating in the table then select a new spring part number based on the weight gain and split. Check with your dealer what springs are available. This may still force you to go aftermarket but keep an eye on the spring length. The springs in the IA table are different load ratings to match the build weight based on the vehicle but they're not a lift spring or a HD spring.

Axle Loads.
Winch weight can reasonably be assigned to the front axle.
Rack weight and loads could be split 40% front axle and 60% rear but you need to think about what you carry on the rack and where it is located and adjust the splits accordingly. 40/60 could easily be 30/70. Weight acts downwards through the centre of gravity which shifts forwards during braking so if you must carry heavy loads on a roof rack (not recommended) then increase the weight assigned to the front.

Adding weight must be done within the overall weight limit of the vehicle and the axles. These limits vary depending on the distribution market and local regulations. Some markets do allow for an increase in axle load limits via a process.

Hitch Downforce.
This is less straightforward because it also moves some front axle weight to the rear axle because the towball is behind the rear axle. Towball downforce increases when towing downhill and during braking because the trailer pitches forward and leans on the towball. If you only tow occasionally I would do a front and rear spring upgrade based on weight gain and axle split then add airbags to manage towball downforce and rear suspension sag.

Opinion only. This is not a textbook.

 

[holdmybeer]

I am still lost as to what to do. I measured from bottom of rim and the fender and i am 31” front and 32.5” rear. Just dropped it off for winch install which will add 70 pounds to front. I will also do a top bar at some point. When i pick it up tomorrow i can measure it again.

One thing to consider with that fender opening measurement… with the body level (i.e. rocker panels parallel to ground), the top of front vs rear fender openings will NOT be the same distance to ground. I hope that made sense?

 

[parb]

I estimate that I have maybe 600lbs extra weight on my car. Underbody armor, steel sliders, roof rack, awning and diabolical drawers. Gp factor winch and bullbar.

I installed higher load rated springs up front with the GP factor install.

Now I'm thinking I should consider it for the rest. I notice more body roll, especially vs stock. Mostly in the rear of the car. I've been driving a stock Grenadier for the past few days and there is a big difference.

I haven't weighed my car but I'm thinking I'm a good candidate for stiffer springs.

What should I look at? I have red springs today. Go black? Eibach? Eibach seems mostly have hd springs with lift in them. I dont want to lift my car at this stage.

Any advice?

 

[anand]

What should I look at? I have red springs today. Go black? Eibach? Eibach seems mostly have hd springs with lift in them. I dont want to lift my car at this stage.

At this point I would go with the black springs for pretty much anyone wanting to carry more weight than stock. I went with blues in the rear as my dealer told me the black springs weren't available; and then immediately after placing the non-returnable order for them said "oh yea, the other ones are available again". I'm not willing to put out the money for another set of OEM rear springs, so I'm considering the 1" MetalCloak spring spacers in the rear after the fuel tank arrives

 

[parb]

Would you put black in both rear and front or just in the rear?
I think the majority of my weight is in the rear so logic suggest that rear is what I should do but I have to admit that suspension and springs isn't a topic I'm an expert in.

 

[anand]

Would you put black in both rear and front or just in the rear?
I think the majority of my weight is in the rear so logic suggest that rear is what I should do but I have to admit that suspension and springs isn't a topic I'm an expert in.

Black in the rear for sure; having put purples on the front with just a winch mount/winch (and the partial weight of sliders and a roof rack), I wouldn't go any lower than purple in the front; if you were doing a roo bar and full skids under the vehicle, probably black on the front as well. It certainly doesn't feel over sprung at all. The caution being going high on the front spring rate may lead to reverse rake if you don't match the rear appropriately

 

[Clark Kent]

Would you put black in both rear and front or just in the rear?
I think the majority of my weight is in the rear so logic suggest that rear is what I should do but I have to admit that suspension and springs isn't a topic I'm an expert in.

I feel like I laid all this out just 4 posts back that way but it was a long post and TLDR is a thing in this glorious age or maybe it's not what you're trying to do

 

[parb]

You did lay it out well. It hinges on my ability to find a scale to weigh the axles with, something I've found surprisingly difficult. Thus the hunt for a shortcut...

 

[Tr182md]

I contacted Eibach and after going back and forth with them saying we don’t know anything about field master and me saying why do you have kits for my car if you don’t know anything they finally said i should consider the 1.7” lift that comes with the 1.2 in the rear. After installing my winch i am 0.5” lower in front so Under compression from my winch that front lift would possibly be 1.2. They did not answer my question about spring rate or length, which would matter. They were not that helpful. I do like the idea of trying to get the factory springs that Ineos would have put on my truck if i had optioned it that way.

I think it feels different now with the winch but not sure it is significant.

I figure anyone who bought it with the factory winch and roof rack could say what springs they had and that would be Ineos approved. That was the point of this post originally i believe — to see what factory options led to what springs. Am i wrong?

I am supposedly pretty smart and i can learn anything but the older i get the more i enjoy not learning what i can pay someone else to do. Problem is the truck is just to new to have anyone capable of working on it. My local british European shop said they are willing to work on it if i need them to. My next task is the brake controller which on my defender involved plugging the redarc harness into the landrover harness made for that and done. Not looking forward to this but i need to do it.

 

[Tom D]

I’m in a quandary with springs too. I currently have a broken front spring. I can get this replaced under warranty but I am fitting a winch. So I’m going to need a heavier set.
My options are:
1. Get the 30mm lift kit from Eibach
2. Get up rated factory springs from INEOS (one of which is fitted under warranty).

The question is if I go with the factory option which rate do I get? I’m tempted by the black ones but will they be too heavy? I do a lot of towing and will be carrying the whole family plus gear and an RTT…

Anyone have any experience with the black springs? I like the sound of them but maybe too stiff for day to day driving..

 

[Clark Kent]

You did lay it out well. It hinges on my ability to find a scale to weigh the axles with, something I've found surprisingly difficult. Thus the hunt for a shortcut...

Hi @parb. Nothing in this list close to you?

CDFA - DMS - Public Scales Listing

Businesses that buy or sell products based on weight will often have a weighbridge. A weighbridge will give a total vehicle mass. Some can give a separate figure for the front and rear by driving part way onto the platform. You need to ask. For Grenadier and QM you want a weighbridge that is accurate in the 2500-4000kg range (5500-8800lbs).

Mobile vehicle weighing services are relatively common here (Australia). They have drive-on individual platforms like oversized bathroom scales that go under each wheel of the vehicle (and trailer) to measure the mass resting on each wheel and axle plus the total vehicle mass.That's the best solution for this activity.

If you cannot get your vehicle weighed then you're most of the way there using your 600lb estimate. @anand already recommended to go black on the rear. I'll step through it using your +600lbs estimate as an example for others.

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A fair portion of your mods are adding weight over the front axle like the winch, armour, rack and front bar. You have upgraded the front springs already.

You have red rear springs. They are rated up to 1411kg according to the IA table. Blue springs would get you another 56kg (1467 - 1411). The empty weight of the drawers plus around 60% of the rack and awning weight would sit over the rear before you load them. Add a load and the weight shifts further rearwards, especially the drawers. Combined, that would exceed a 56kg gain over the rear axle so blue springs are out.

Black is 112kg higher than red (1523-1411) so black is your only remaining option within the factory spring range.
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If you keep adding weight above what black springs offer then you need an aftermarket spring solution, including the HD Eibach springs.

Assessing for a front spring upgrade is the same process.

Black rear springs plus rear load assist airbags might be sufficient in some scenarios.

You need to stay under the rated axle limits per local market approval or get a rating increase if available (called a Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) upgrade in Australia).

 

[Max]

I’m in a quandary with springs too. I currently have a broken front spring. I can get this replaced under warranty but I am fitting a winch. So I’m going to need a heavier set.
My options are:
1. Get the 30mm lift kit from Eibach
2. Get up rated factory springs from INEOS (one of which is fitted under warranty).

The question is if I go with the factory option which rate do I get? I’m tempted by the black ones but will they be too heavy? I do a lot of towing and will be carrying the whole family plus gear and an RTT…

Anyone have any experience with the black springs? I like the sound of them but maybe too stiff for day to day driving..

I wouldn't hesitate recommending and you contacting XHQ.

Expedition HQ Australia - Home of SLRV & INEOS Grenadier​

Expedition HQ
https://expeditionhq.com.au
We now manufacture one of the worlds leading brands of Expedition Vehicles, SLRV. From 2022, we are also proud Gold Coast and Northern Rivers agents for INEOS ...


I've had nothing but professional advice from XHQ with regards to my spring upgrade. They have helped me with all the specs, including the wheel alignment which is what they have found best and not just out of the book. They are an knowledgable 4X4 construction company who are an Ineos agent.

 

[Tazzieman]

My next task is the brake controller which on my defender involved plugging the redarc harness into the landrover harness made for that and done. Not looking forward to this but i need to do it.

Considef Elecbrakes. Plug and play. Works perfectly!
No electricians were troubled during the installation process