Class action

[Earthwatcher]

Any lawyers in the house? I'm not generally litigious but I've thought for a while now that INEOS has been having us for a laugh. I was oozing goodwill when I bought my Grenadier, really liked the idea of it, ignored all the common sense warning signs, decided that moans over the steering and foot ramp were no more than that, didn't panic at all the software alerts, got the seals fixed when they let water in, swallowed the £800 service bill and tried to make a day of it when I took it over to Portsmouth for a fix (no courtesy car).

But it seems to me that the closure of so many sales and service centres has been neglectful on INEOS's part. Surely there is something on "duty of care" in law that they've abandoned. I'd be willing to chip in a wedge of cash in to a pot, if only to initially explore the possibilities of a class action against the company. But I'm not a lawyer, just an old fool who probably has more money than sense, and arguably not much of either.

I still think it's a solid car that, hopefully, will run and run, but it needs servicing and INEOS made a lot of sales mileage over its "fixability".

He might know much about turning chemicals in to gold, but Sir Jim knows very little about football or sailing and even less, it seems, about the car market.

 

[Jeremy996]

Think about what you want to achieve and the timescale, as anything other than Small Claims is likely to be massively costly and extremely slow. Think in terms of £100k as burn money to get to the HIgh Court and 5 years to get to the courtroom door.

If you want some free consumer advice, contact your local Tranding Standards Office, (usually part of the County Council), and ask to speak to the duty officer. If your vehicle is faulty, then they can help, but more nebulous matters like access to local technicians and manuals for retail clients are outside their normal experience.

Ineos Automotive are making more positive noises and a shorter timescale, so my suggestion is to keep your powder dry. I've written on here that I am looking at using consumer law at the 5 year mark, as showing actual damages before the end of the warranty would be quite difficult. If IA release a usable manual and parts book before then, then I have saved a lot of time, angst and cash, rather than tilting at windmills.

The lack of dealers and technicians, workshop time and experience can only be addressed by IA and their franchise holders. If IA want a sound commercial base, this needs to be addressed quickly before they poison the well, upsetting owners, insurers and potential commercial clients. I'd like to think that message is getting through.

Ineos Automotive has consistently underestimated the issues raised by consumer law. Selling a complex product to a retail client is controlled by some quite draconian consumer laws, so in the UK they had no idea on how to deal with rejected vehicles, until wiser heads preveiled. I am confident that IA can learn, but I will not be betting on the timescale just yet.

 

[CRH]

Any lawyers in the house? I'm not generally litigious but I've thought for a while now that INEOS has been having us for a laugh. I was oozing goodwill when I bought my Grenadier, really liked the idea of it, ignored all the common sense warning signs, decided that moans over the steering and foot ramp were no more than that, didn't panic at all the software alerts, got the seals fixed when they let water in, swallowed the £800 service bill and tried to make a day of it when I took it over to Portsmouth for a fix (no courtesy car).

But it seems to me that the closure of so many sales and service centres has been neglectful on INEOS's part. Surely there is something on "duty of care" in law that they've abandoned. I'd be willing to chip in a wedge of cash in to a pot, if only to initially explore the possibilities of a class action against the company. But I'm not a lawyer, just an old fool who probably has more money than sense, and arguably not much of either.

I still think it's a solid car that, hopefully, will run and run, but it needs servicing and INEOS made a lot of sales mileage over its "fixability".

He might know much about turning chemicals in to gold, but Sir Jim knows very little about football or sailing and even less, it seems, about the car market.

There is no requirement to have local service centres, Ferrari etc. They tend to pick the car up and take for a service which is what IA 'said' would be offered, not ideal.
Sadly for this country they are a niche vehicle until we have a smaller electric (of sorts), offering. Servicing was always going to be a worry long term. Which is why the promised manuals went a long way to help.with decisions.
From what I have been told by people who deal with the polymer side of Ineos, they aren't great there either, but neither are the rest of them.

 

[Oscar786]

Any lawyers in the house? I'm not generally litigious but I've thought for a while now that INEOS has been having us for a laugh. I was oozing goodwill when I bought my Grenadier, really liked the idea of it, ignored all the common sense warning signs, decided that moans over the steering and foot ramp were no more than that, didn't panic at all the software alerts, got the seals fixed when they let water in, swallowed the £800 service bill and tried to make a day of it when I took it over to Portsmouth for a fix (no courtesy car).

But it seems to me that the closure of so many sales and service centres has been neglectful on INEOS's part. Surely there is something on "duty of care" in law that they've abandoned. I'd be willing to chip in a wedge of cash in to a pot, if only to initially explore the possibilities of a class action against the company. But I'm not a lawyer, just an old fool who probably has more money than sense, and arguably not much of either.

I still think it's a solid car that, hopefully, will run and run, but it needs servicing and INEOS made a lot of sales mileage over its "fixability".

He might know much about turning chemicals in to gold, but Sir Jim knows very little about football or sailing and even less, it seems, about the car market.

As others have commented , I agree , it would cost a fortune to take them to court and they will always argue they have given loan vehicles etc… I have a good friends who is a kings council and he said rather put pressure on the people at the top , these being Sarah Connor and Lynn Calder . Pressure them through social media and other ways to contact them . I have had a terrible experience where my grenadier was damaged whilst in their care , faulty heater , door handle issues , display issues with the screen , warning lights coming on random , hands free issues and a lot more . You have to keep the pressure up and not let them get away either it .

 

[Dokatd]

As others have commented , I agree , it would cost a fortune to take them to court and they will always argue they have given loan vehicles etc… I have a good friends who is a kings council and he said rather put pressure on the people at the top , these being Sarah Connor and Lynn Calder . Pressure them through social media and other ways to contact them . I have had a terrible experience where my grenadier was damaged whilst in their care , faulty heater , door handle issues , display issues with the screen , warning lights coming on random , hands free issues and a lot more . You have to keep the pressure up and not let them get away either it .

Sadly everyone just comes back and makes excuses or downplays the vehicles major faults. There are too many willing to play FanBoi. If people were honest with themselves and not accept super compromised designs we could get somewhere, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[landmannnn]

Any lawyers in the house? I'm not generally litigious but I've thought for a while now that INEOS has been having us for a laugh. I was oozing goodwill when I bought my Grenadier, really liked the idea of it, ignored all the common sense warning signs, decided that moans over the steering and foot ramp were no more than that, didn't panic at all the software alerts, got the seals fixed when they let water in, swallowed the £800 service bill and tried to make a day of it when I took it over to Portsmouth for a fix (no courtesy car).

But it seems to me that the closure of so many sales and service centres has been neglectful on INEOS's part. Surely there is something on "duty of care" in law that they've abandoned. I'd be willing to chip in a wedge of cash in to a pot, if only to initially explore the possibilities of a class action against the company. But I'm not a lawyer, just an old fool who probably has more money than sense, and arguably not much of either.

I still think it's a solid car that, hopefully, will run and run, but it needs servicing and INEOS made a lot of sales mileage over its "fixability".

He might know much about turning chemicals in to gold, but Sir Jim knows very little about football or sailing and even less, it seems, about the car market.

Even if you and others appointed a lead solictor to act on your behalf (no such thing as class action in the UK), what outcome would you expect?

You haven't exactly lost any money, so not that.

The duty of care is that the manufacturer must ensure that the product is safe and not harming people. There is no basis for that.

To put it into perspective, there is a group action agasint JLR for poor DPF systems which has cost many owners considerabe sums for replacment DPFs and even engines. Somewhat more tangible.

 

[ecohen2]

If you don't like the vehicle or the company then sell it and move on, in the end that will be cheaper than trying to take them to court...

 

[Tazzieman]

If you don't like the vehicle or the company then sell it and move on, in the end that will be cheaper than trying to take them to court...

Some people just like to fight, fight , fight...

 

[Dokatd]

If you don't like the vehicle or the company then sell it and move on, in the end that will be cheaper than trying to take them to court...

Understandable, but on the flip side, do you like a vehicle that the front driveshaft could fail on any minute and take out half your drivetrain. This is a problem affecting both stock and modified trucks alike. Ineos is dragging their feet on it and warranty is dubious at best right now.

 

[MileHigh]

I’m guessing the OP has never owned a jeep.

It seems the only relevant issue is the leaking seals. You might have an issue with the dealer network, but that’s a rather nebulous thing without kind of specifications and standards?

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Geographically speaking the Uk is not that big. How many service locations do you need?

 

[CRH]

Geographically speaking the Uk is not that big. How many service locations do you need?

Problem in UK is we expect to have a dealer within 30mins to bother buying that brand. Our minds are blown to the idea of travelling the distances in the USA or Australia to just have your car serviced, we just wouldn't bother buying that brand.
It is often the case that everyone buys whatever the local garage sells if they are a bit more remote.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Problem in UK is we expect to have a dealer within 30mins to bother buying that brand. Our minds are blown to the idea of travelling the distances in the USA or Australia to just have your car serviced, we just wouldn't bother buying that brand.
It is often the case that everyone buys whatever the local garage sells if they are a bit more remote.

Mind blown. We are really different.
I guess it’s all about being conditioned to embrace the norm of long distance travel or not.

 

[CRH]

Mind blown. We are really different.
I guess it’s all about being conditioned to embrace the norm of long distance travel or not.

I think that's why half the complaints about the vehicle don't cross over very well and then the accusations of fanboys start.
What is acceptable to one nation is a disaster to another and then vice versa on the next complaint. You would only use a dealer 100 miles or more away if it was the likes of Ferrari or Rolls Royce and they collected and returned your vehicle on a covered low loader. Otherwise you just buy the local brand.

 

[Eric]

Geographically speaking the Uk is not that big. How many service locations do you need?

It's a British thing.

 

[Krabby]

If I might suggest, I think many of our British friends come from the Land Rover world. Specifically coming from proper Defenders they have access to dozens upon dozens of service options from full dealerships to LR specialist garages and even to mom and pop workshops dotted about the Union.

 

[ecohen2]

Understandable, but on the flip side, do you like a vehicle that the front driveshaft could fail on any minute and take out half your drivetrain. This is a problem affecting both stock and modified trucks alike. Ineos is dragging their feet on it and warranty is dubious at best right now.

Statistically the number of driveshafts that break per hundreds of thousands of miles driven is really low. I suspect there are other issues that have a much higher failure rate that you could worry about. This SUV is a version 1.0 and it's probably a bit unfair to expect Toyota reliability and service from the company. That is just reality....

I am about to set out on a 4 or 5 day roadtrip that is probably about 1200 miles or so and honestly am not worried about the driveshaft breaking... Maybe I am dumb, but I have spent enough miles (18,000 so far) that I am not worried about it...