Black Sheep Inovations

[grenadierboy]

I feel like one of the most difficult decisions is the type of rack to buy.

Do I buy the strongest, heaviest, ugliest rack because I may load it to shit and maybe one day drive up and down the worst road in Australia?

I need to find a compromise that suits my requirements, especially as I am likely to have a camping trailer on longer trips.

 

[MrMike]

I feel like one of the most difficult decisions is the type of rack to buy.

Do I buy the strongest, heaviest, ugliest rack because I may load it to shit and maybe one day drive up and down the worst road in Australia?

I need to find a compromise that suits my requirements, especially as I am likely to have a camping trailer on longer trips.

I'm of the same thought. I have ordered the rack, this will be my first Rhino.... Only time will tell.........

 

[grenadierboy]

I'm of the same thought. I have ordered the rack, this will be my first Rhino.... Only time will tell.........

So Mike - this Rhino rack has been specifically developed for the Grenadier but do we know what the specific changes Rhino made for the Grenadier rack?

 

[bigleonski]

I'm more concerned with the use of tube aluminum as an anchor point

Agreed - NOT the solution for Australian outback conditions in my opinion.

I’ve had an Opposite Lock alloy rack for a while that has been all over Australia and on its worst tracks (except for the Canning). Alloy helps with the weight and I believe flexes a little better so avoids potential cracking (my theory only). But I had stainless steel anchors made for it that bolt directly into the roof tracks in my 100 Series and then 200 Series that are solidly secured and take all the weight.

I wouldn’t be trusting any mount to those aluminum grabrails on anything other than bitumen or the beach.

 

[MrMike]

So Mike - this Rhino rack has been specifically developed for the Grenadier but do we know what the specific changes Rhino made for the Grenadier rack?

I'd say not, but that's a guess

 

[grenadierboy]

Agreed - NOT the solution for Australian outback conditions in my opinion.

I’ve had an Opposite Lock alloy rack for a while that has been all over Australia and on its worst tracks (except for the Canning). But I had stainless steel anchors made for it that bolt directly into the roof tracks in my 100 Series and then 200 Series that are solidly secured and take all the weight.

I wouldn’t be trusting any mount to those aluminum grabrails on anything other than bitumen or the beach.

Just to clarify (and improve my understanding) are you in effect saying that even if one was to keep the weight on the BS rack always UNDER it's load rating it would still be unsatisfactory in Australian conditions?

 

[Lollo050968]

Thule (Caprock XXL)is now on the market for Grenadier roof rack, too. It‘s less big than the full Rhino Rack, but with 2100mm longer than the3/4 of Frontrunner. Height is with 28cm same like Frontrunner, but looks higher. Weight is with ~31kg light. 300€ cheaper than Frontrunner.
For my taste, the Frontrunner is more flexible and looks better.

 

[DCPU]

So Mike - this Rhino rack has been specifically developed for the Grenadier but do we know what the specific changes Rhino made for the Grenadier rack?

Visually, the legs seem to be a bespoke solution for Ineos.

 

[DCPU]

I’ve had an Opposite Lock alloy rack for a while that has been all over Australia and on its worst tracks (except for the Canning). Alloy helps with the weight and I believe flexes a little better so avoids potential cracking (my theory only).

What do you mean by alloy?

 

[PBD]

put down a bit of rubber mat

My plan exactly. Put a rubber mat on roof when needed and lash whatever is on the roof to the side rails. Surely this is the original design intention?

 

[bigleonski]

What do you mean by alloy?

Sorry, it’s an aluminum rack.

 

[bigleonski]

Just to clarify (and improve my understanding) are you in effect saying that even if one was to keep the weight on the BS rack always UNDER it's load rating it would still be unsatisfactory in Australian conditions?

What I’m saying is that with a full day’s drive on serious corrugations things just shake apart. Anything welded if it isn’t robust may crack, and anything that has been fixed by screws / nuts and bolts can work itself loose. From memory those grab rails are only anchored with plastic fittings.
Back in 2013 we did the Anne Beadell Highway when it hadn’t been graded for years- one of the worst corrugated roads I’ve been on, with sections of it corrugated gibber - so almost ironstone and zero give in it. You just had to find the most comfortable speed to travel and sometimes that was 20km/hr and sometimes it was 70. We were having to stop regularly during the day to run over the vehicles with a spanner to tighten stuff up. I had under bonnet battery anchors loosen and throw a nut so rhe battery was just bouncing about, the screw on the centre cap on the mag wheels used to come unloose so it would be hanging by a thread when you pulled up, we used to have to always run the spanner over the nuts holding the racks onto the frame and check and tighten up everything. One of the guys on that trip had a 3 year old short wheelbase Pajero, and after the trip it drove like it was 20 years old - everything rattled. It’s not about weight but the relentless rapid movement of everything that shakes the shit out of things. And anything inside the vehicle that is loose and not secured properly will rub holes in things. If something is allowed to rub against the vehicle plastic it will wear a hole or leave a permanent rub mark. On those sorts of trips, sub par gear lets you down.

Now not every trip is like that obviously, but when I buy gear I want it to handle that sort of trip as well as a week on Fraser Island.

Make sense?

 

[grenadierboy]

What I’m saying is that with a full day’s drive on serious corrugations things just shake apart. Anything welded if it isn’t robust may crack, and anything that has been fixed by screws / nuts and bolts can work itself loose. Back in 2013 we did the Anne Beadell Highway when it hadn’t been graded for years- one of the worst corrugated roads I’ve been on, with sections of it corrugated gibber - so almost ironstone and zero give in it. You just had to find the most comfortable speed to travel and sometimes that was 20km/hr and sometimes it was 70. We were having to stop regularly during the day to run over the vehicles with a spanner to tighten stuff up. I had under bonnet battery anchors loosen and through a nut, the screw on the centre cap on the mag wheels used to come unloose so it would be hanging by a thread when you pulled up, we used to have to always run the spanner over the nuts holding the racks onto the frame and check and tighten up everything. One of the guys on that trip had a 3 year old short wheelbase Pajero, and after the trip it drove like it was 20 years old - everything rattled. It’s not about weight but the relentless rapid movement of everything that shakes the shit out of things. And anything inside the vehicle that is loose and not secured properly will rub holes in things. If something is allowed to rub against the vehicle plastic it will wear a hole or leave a permanent rub mark. On those sorts of trips, sub par gear lets you down.

Now not every trip is like that obviously, but when I buy gear I want it to handle that sort of trip as well as a week on Fraser Island.

Make sense?

perfect - many thanks

 

[HT]

Looking at the airline tracks on that BSI roof rack and it occurs to me that you might be able to increase your static/dynamic rooftop load but attaching a strut or a poll (maybe telescopic for tensioning reasons) between those airline tracks down the side of the roof rack and transfer some of the weight down to the airline racks on the side panels.

Is this logic sound?

 

[MrMike]

What I’m saying is that with a full day’s drive on serious corrugations things just shake apart. Anything welded if it isn’t robust may crack, and anything that has been fixed by screws / nuts and bolts can work itself loose. From memory those grab rails are only anchored with plastic fittings.
Back in 2013 we did the Anne Beadell Highway when it hadn’t been graded for years- one of the worst corrugated roads I’ve been on, with sections of it corrugated gibber - so almost ironstone and zero give in it. You just had to find the most comfortable speed to travel and sometimes that was 20km/hr and sometimes it was 70. We were having to stop regularly during the day to run over the vehicles with a spanner to tighten stuff up. I had under bonnet battery anchors loosen and throw a nut so rhe battery was just bouncing about, the screw on the centre cap on the mag wheels used to come unloose so it would be hanging by a thread when you pulled up, we used to have to always run the spanner over the nuts holding the racks onto the frame and check and tighten up everything. One of the guys on that trip had a 3 year old short wheelbase Pajero, and after the trip it drove like it was 20 years old - everything rattled. It’s not about weight but the relentless rapid movement of everything that shakes the shit out of things. And anything inside the vehicle that is loose and not secured properly will rub holes in things. If something is allowed to rub against the vehicle plastic it will wear a hole or leave a permanent rub mark. On those sorts of trips, sub par gear lets you down.

Now not every trip is like that obviously, but when I buy gear I want it to handle that sort of trip as well as a week on Fraser Island.

Make sense?

The rails are attached with metal fittings that are attached to the main body. But the "t" section fitting from the body to the rail IMO is not an ideal way to attach a rack, I think thats why BS have used the roof as additional support.

 

[ATP]

I guess the only why of assessing is getting exact specifications of the BS rack, including materials used etc. and comparing to the potentially more robust racking systems (or of course - buying one & using it in the harshest Australian conditions.)

I was under the impression that such conditions do eventually destroy all/most roof racks?

I've been lucky enough over the years to have driven several iconic routes, and while how well made your kit is is important, it's only of equal importance to how well fitted and maintained it is...

 

[DaveB]

I'm more concerned with the use of tube aluminum as an anchor point

to be sold in Australia it will need to meet ADR's

 

[DaveB]

Visually, the legs seem to be a bespoke solution for Ineos.

The legs are huge and ugly

 

[Maxwell]

Better, but if they’re going to do real sliders with a step I’d prefer a decent width - big feet need something a little wider to get proper purchase.

I would prefer one single (not two separate) step on each side. However, I now seriously regret that I ordered the factory sliders…

 

[ECrider]

The legs are huge and ugly

perhaps we should refer to it as the 'eight pinter'