The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Workshop Manuals available?

[ Adam ]

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
9:48 AM
Joined
Nov 2, 2022
Messages
912
Reaction score
1,851
Location
Fairfax, VA, USA
I swear in the 2021-2022 timeframe, an INEOS exec made an explicit analogy to the Open Source philosophy (of some software circles, including commercially viable projects) when telling the world how DIY and mod friendly the Grenadier would be.

You are 100% correct. Statements were made on LinkedIn as well. They've certainly taken a turn, haven't they.
 

jert

Grenadier Owner
Local time
3:48 PM
Joined
Aug 5, 2022
Messages
60
Reaction score
228
Location
Germany
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! What I immediately picked up is the word „subscription“. Sounds to me like if they will make it available it will be designed to work as another revenue stream for Ineos.
We‘ll find out at some point for sure.
 

TD5-90

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
3:48 PM
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
383
Reaction score
852
Location
South Germany
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! What I immediately picked up is the word „subscription“. Sounds to me like if they will make it available it will be designed to work as another revenue stream for Ineos.
We‘ll find out at some point for sure.
Doesn't matter which way they r** you o**. Even _if_ you ever had a manual, your way will inevitably lead you to the authorized dealer's spare parts desk. And nowhere else as it appears up to now... Trapped.

I have pointed out several times here that it is well understood that INEOS is not a charity event. But nobody can deny that they moved far away from the promises they made to us early subscribers. That's simply embarrassing.
For me the full servicability by myself was the most important part of the decision to buy the vehicle. Up to now there wasn't much to service, nothing I couldn't fix myself, and the vehicle itself is absolutely great.

Maybe this will change...
 
Last edited:

Tom D

Grenadier Owner
Local time
2:48 PM
Joined
Jun 3, 2022
Messages
776
Reaction score
2,264
It's a pretty big fail if they don't deliver on this, if you're doing any remote travel, which I will be, or even if you just like fixing things yourself, which I do, this is really important. It was a big factor in me choosing to buy the thing in the first place.
 
Local time
2:48 PM
Joined
Aug 9, 2023
Messages
212
Reaction score
441
Location
Australia
A better option for Ineos is to develop a set of condensed user repair manuals to cover major service items and tasks that are likely to be completed by the vehicle enthusiast. Items that should be covered include systems operation, fault code list, basic all world wiring schematic, basic electrical, major servicing including wheel bearings, kingpins, drive shafts, transmission service, axle seals, brake bleeding, cooling system service, basic engine repair, body and interior repairs ect. Pretty much the generic tasks that will be completed on any vehicle and not affecting proprietary information like software or requiring considerable investment in specialised tools. Items like engine overhaul, major transmission repair and specialised electrical diagnostics could be omitted as these are tasks the majority of owners will not have the equipment or knowledge to successfully attempt even with the aid of a manual.
 

trobex

Grenadier Owner
Local time
2:48 PM
Joined
Dec 23, 2022
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
2,111
Location
Australia
I have no interest in subscribing to agent only service and repairs (non warranty stuff). I was promised manuals and I expect them to deliver. I am currently dealing with a very experienced service tech with extensive B57 knowledge - not affiliated with IA or any agent. Stuff the manual for now and good luck IA with broken promises.
 

trobex

Grenadier Owner
Local time
2:48 PM
Joined
Dec 23, 2022
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
2,111
Location
Australia
I swear in the 2021-2022 timeframe, an INEOS exec made an explicit analogy to the Open Source philosophy (of some software circles, including commercially viable projects) when telling the world how DIY and mod friendly the Grenadier would be. Some of us early reservation holders bought into that. I did. It was going to be a breath of fresh air from a factory. Now it smells like horseshit.

IMO, IP has no place when it comes to a vehicle owner wanting to maintain or mod their vehicle. Want to void my warranty on part of the truck? That’s fair. But give me the damn map. Show me how “my” truck was made, please.
They explicitly promised this. It was what all early reservation holders bought in to. Anything short of sending me the manual is a scam.
 

landmannnn

Grenadier Owner
Local time
2:48 PM
Joined
Apr 9, 2024
Messages
45
Reaction score
65
Location
UK
I'm confused.

IA have said all along that they will produce manuals. They have told us they are working on them, but are not ready yet. Some time this year.

How can this be a scam?
 

trobex

Grenadier Owner
Local time
2:48 PM
Joined
Dec 23, 2022
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
2,111
Location
Australia
I'm confused.

IA have said all along that they will produce manuals. They have told us they are working on them, but are not ready yet. Some time this year.

How can this be a scam?
Because not having them when the vehicle was delivered means it does not exist. Until I have that copy it remains a scam in my view as I do not have what was promised. I'll retract my view when it materialises. I'm an angry man... with everything!
 

Tazzieman

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
11:48 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
5,878
Reaction score
11,848
Location
Tasmania
Until I have that copy it remains a scam in my view as I do not have what was promised.
You clearly like legalities and contracts and all that stuff, and wouldn't trust an old school handshake deal.
Show me Ineos "promise" in writing ;)
 

TD5-90

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Founding Guard
Local time
3:48 PM
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
383
Reaction score
852
Location
South Germany
I'm confused.

IA have said all along that they will produce manuals. They have told us they are working on them, but are not ready yet. Some time this year.

How can this be a scam?
Because they tell you the same in 10 years?
Estimation based on previous experience...

Yes, I'm another angry old man regarding that specific topic...
 

flynnsk

Grenadier Owner
Forum Donor
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
8:48 AM
Joined
Jun 9, 2023
Messages
195
Reaction score
240
Location
Chicago
You clearly like legalities and contracts and all that stuff, and wouldn't trust an old school handshake deal.
Show me Ineos "promise" in writing ;)

To "produce" and to "provide" are two entirely different things. Echo-ing what many others have already said, Ineos clearly stated they intended to make available said manuals. Nothing was written down in a signed contract, if that is what you are asking for. Not much different than promising "bullet-proof windows", only to deliver something much different:

200.gif

Won't go far as to say is bait and switch, as I do believe their original statements as their intent. I also believe they then saw a huge potential for Subscription based service.
 

JonSutton

Grenadier Owner
Local time
2:48 PM
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Messages
140
Reaction score
269
Location
UK
It was certainly explicit in their early customer pitch that manuals would be available to support the vehicles in out of the way places.
I have full manuals for all my LR vehicles, even the 80” and current military ones. It ain’t too difficult to do these days vs the days of artist drawings and heavy text. I think Ineos are some way off getting there but I do think they will get there, I’m not even sure dealers and agents have all the maintenance & repair info yet. Makes repair impossible but part replacement will be the norm. No transfer box repairs, just swap the entire unit!
 

mikeonline

Grenadier Owner
Local time
3:48 PM
Joined
Mar 4, 2024
Messages
17
Reaction score
38
Location
Germany
It was certainly explicit in their early customer pitch that manuals would be available to support the vehicles in out of the way places.
I have full manuals for all my LR vehicles, even the 80” and current military ones. It ain’t too difficult to do these days vs the days of artist drawings and heavy text. I think Ineos are some way off getting there but I do think they will get there, I’m not even sure dealers and agents have all the maintenance & repair info yet. Makes repair impossible but part replacement will be the norm. No transfer box repairs, just swap the entire unit!
it is still on the service page, that the manuals come up
 
Back
Top Bottom