What is BMW planning?

[Tenac]

For another luxury SUV?

Or for a true, fully-fledged off-roader?

Why not both?

 

[bigleonski]

We’ve had a few BMW’s over the years, my bride drives them.
About 15 years ago the dealer asked me when I was going to buy a BMW for myself.
I said when they make one as good for off road / outback touring as the landcruiser.

Funny how your comments come back to bite you.

 

[CRH]

LOL, BMW buying Ineos. BMW wants nothing to do with a live axle truck. Ineos v Defender sales tall them all they need know about that competition. They are looking to capture market share, outside of the X crossover glorified cars.

In fairness to Ineos, if BMW took over sales would inevitably increase as BMW are a known and trusted brand and would guarantee longevity of the Grenadier 'brand' and availability of parts, whether that would be true or not. After market producers would have confidence to remanufacture parts as it would sell in higher quantities.
Therfore, if Ineos are able to make it work as a product it would probably be more profitable for BMW due to their scale.
It would probably end up more refined as has happened with the G-Wagon so as to compete directly but also move more in to the luxury end and effect the price accordingly.
I would rather it stays as it is, gains a good reputation for what it is and continues for the long run.
The idea of it becoming a BMW and the reputation it would then get fills me with dread. I don't want to be seen as a wannabe rapper or drug dealer.

 

[AWo]

That means you're not a wannabe rapper or drug dealer, you're actually true ones?

AWo

 

[landmannnn]

Just scratching around the history of the Rover Group.
It was owned by BMW once and has had all sorts of engines over time. Ford/Peugeot[pretty sure a V6], Jaguar, BMW[South Africa], Isuzu[Australian Defence] and if you go back in time the Spanish were building the vehicle at one stage. The Rover Group has been juggled around the world.

Look at Ineos Grenadier, an International Bitzer, with a high end Mongrel Pedigree.

Add to that Honda V6s and 4 cylinders, an Italian boat engine, Ford van engines, a straight 6 from Leyland Australia, a Buick designed V8.

 

[CRH]

That means you're not a wannabe rapper or drug dealer, you're actually true ones?

AWo

You caught me out

 

[Zimm]

In fairness to Ineos, if BMW took over sales would inevitably increase as BMW are a known and trusted brand and would guarantee longevity of the Grenadier 'brand' and availability of parts, whether that would be true or not. After market producers would have confidence to remanufacture parts as it would sell in higher quantities.
Therfore, if Ineos are able to make it work as a product it would probably be more profitable for BMW due to their scale.
It would probably end up more refined as has happened with the G-Wagon so as to compete directly but also move more in to the luxury end and effect the price accordingly.
I would rather it stays as it is, gains a good reputation for what it is and continues for the long run.
The idea of it becoming a BMW and the reputation it would then get fills me with dread. I don't want to be seen as a wannabe rapper or drug dealer.

I don't deny the first sentence, but, it's a 2018 gwagon competitor, not the current iteration. They want a G beater, not to be a Gren lifeline.

Also, they need a model, not a car company. They ARE a car company. They have plant capacity. They have off the shelf BMW bits. They can design and build a model for less money. They don't need parts suppliers and bits that aren't in their network. They don't need to take over and manage someone else's failed launch. If this had a stellar launch, I don't think they would want it, and it wouldn't be a discussion at that point anyway.

When Honda wanted to jump into the US SUV market, They re-badged an Isuzu for a couple years until they had their own 'Pilot' that fit the company mold.

Oh, and they do NOT want a body on frame. They are not a truck company, and SUV's are passenger vehicles, not trucks. It has to win a road race with a Defender and a Gwagon. basically, It'll look like a Defender architecture.

I'll shave my head on video if I'm wrong.

 

[CRH]

I don't deny the first sentence, but, it's a 2018 gwagon competitor, not the current iteration. They want a G beater, not to be a Gren lifeline.

Also, they need a model, not a car company. They ARE a car company. They have plant capacity. They have off the shelf BMW bits. They can design and build a model for less money. They don't need parts suppliers and bits that aren't in their network. They don't need to take over and manage someone else's failed launch. If this had a stellar launch, I don't think they would want it, and it wouldn't be a discussion at that point anyway.

When Honda wanted to jump into the US SUV market, They re-badged an Isuzu for a couple years until they had their own 'Pilot' that fit the company mold.

Oh, and they do NOT want a body on frame. They are not a truck company, and SUV's are passenger vehicles, not trucks. It has to win a road race with a Defender and a Gwagon. basically, It'll look like a Defender architecture.

I'll shave my head on video if I'm wrong.

Agreed, as i said, they would want to modernise ie make into a Gwagon and competitor. As you said they do not make lader on chassis and this would get them a ready made vehicle. I also do not think it will ever happen and hopefully doesn't but at the same time I do want the vehicle to continue and become a success.
Even the Chinese are starting to make these type of vehicles so maybe the fashion is moving from SUV to proper 4x4s which may help the cause if Ineos get everything sorted

 

[Max]

Anything could happen in the auto world...Mercedes and Nissan Dual cab ute...VW and Ford Dual cab ute...next?

Mercedes-Benz offloads Nissan stake for $325 million ...​

Reuters
https://www.reuters.com › business › autos-transportation




3 days ago — The pension trust of German automaker Mercedes-Benz has sold its entire stake in Japan's Nissan Motor for 47.83 billion yen, a source with ...

 

[landmannnn]

Anything could happen in the auto world...Mercedes and Nissan Dual cab ute...VW and Ford Dual cab ute...next?

Mercedes-Benz offloads Nissan stake for $325 million ...​

Reuters
https://www.reuters.com › business › autos-transportation




3 days ago — The pension trust of German automaker Mercedes-Benz has sold its entire stake in Japan's Nissan Motor for 47.83 billion yen, a source with ...

Aren't cars becoming like washing machines?

People look at the specifications, the badge and the price.

Nobody really knows where their washing was made, who actually made it or noticed that it is identical to several others.

With Mercedes working with BMW and Ford working with GM I suspect I am right.

 

[NQ94]

Aren't cars becoming like washing machines?

People look at the specifications, the badge and the price.

Nobody really knows where their washing was made, who actually made it or noticed that it is identical to several others.

With Mercedes working with BMW and Ford working with GM I suspect I am right.

Just like appliances they’re also starting to come with forced obsolescence.

 

[CRH]

Mates electric BMW ix3? Electric SUV thing. 60 odd thousand miles 3 years old and failed MOT, shock absorbers & mounts, plus steering rack all need changing
Still under warranty and company vehicle. Absolute junk, he said it was around £80k when new!! They are now getting him a saloon BMW electric thing, at least it might be a bit lighter on the components.
Nothing about electric vehicles inspires me. They can all do 0-60 in the time it takes the wife to vomit.
All I would care about is distance it can go on a charge and price, nothing else matters. There is no pedigree to any of them. And the chance of them lasting longer than the warranty without further expense is 50:50. It will be like buying a complex expensive car from the 80's or 90's on the cheap, a complete gamble.

 

[Tazzieman]

I'll shave my head on video if I'm wrong.

You wouldn't be the first bald guy to make such an unsatisfactory promise

 

[landmannnn]

Mates electric BMW ix3? Electric SUV thing. 60 odd thousand miles 3 years old and failed MOT, shock absorbers & mounts, plus steering rack all need changing
Still under warranty and company vehicle. Absolute junk, he said it was around £80k when new!! They are now getting him a saloon BMW electric thing, at least it might be a bit lighter on the components.
Nothing about electric vehicles inspires me. They can all do 0-60 in the time it takes the wife to vomit.
All I would care about is distance it can go on a charge and price, nothing else matters. There is no pedigree to any of them. And the chance of them lasting longer than the warranty without further expense is 50:50. It will be like buying a complex expensive car from the 80's or 90's on the cheap, a complete gamble.

Residuals are shocking on those. A 3 or 4 year old with average miles can be had for £20k or even less.

 

[Zimm]

Mates electric BMW ix3? Electric SUV thing. 60 odd thousand miles 3 years old and failed MOT, shock absorbers & mounts, plus steering rack all need changing
Still under warranty and company vehicle. Absolute junk, he said it was around £80k when new!! They are now getting him a saloon BMW electric thing, at least it might be a bit lighter on the components.
Nothing about electric vehicles inspires me. They can all do 0-60 in the time it takes the wife to vomit.
All I would care about is distance it can go on a charge and price, nothing else matters. There is no pedigree to any of them. And the chance of them lasting longer than the warranty without further expense is 50:50. It will be like buying a complex expensive car from the 80's or 90's on the cheap, a complete gamble.

Nothing you mention failing has to do with an electric drive-train. You're complaining about the coachwork. A shitty car is a shitty car. Having spent 1/4 century installing industrial gensets, I have never had a customers generator fail. The cooling systems and Ice components are what dies. That and the controls eventually lack support, and the old fellas that know where to look on the boards retire.

At the very least, eliminating the starter and wedging an axial flux pancake between the ICE and tranny for a bounus 100ftlbs from takeoff seems like a no brainier. The parts are simple and more reliable than the rest of the ICE drivetrain. The big issue for all cars seems the same to me, and that is manufacturers all utilizing exclusive proprietary computer systems to make all service a reoccurring revenue stream. We may have a purchased our Ineos, but, really, the lack of open source for the important computer control means were always going home to papa for something to buy, and its just a fancy lease.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

I pray to lord jesus that BMW buys the Grenadier IP from Ineos.

Being associated with no-name Ineos is hurting market penetration and ultimately the sustainability of the vehicle.

 

[CRH]

Residuals are shocking on those. A 3 or 4 year old with average miles can be had for £20k or even less.

Ouch

 

[CRH]

Nothing you mention failing has to do with an electric drive-train. You're complaining about the coachwork. A shitty car is a shitty car. Having spent 1/4 century installing industrial gensets, I have never had a customers generator fail. The cooling systems and Ice components are what dies. That and the controls eventually lack support, and the old fellas that know where to look on the boards retire.

At the very least, eliminating the starter and wedging an axial flux pancake between the ICE and tranny for a bounus 100ftlbs from takeoff seems like a no brainier. The parts are simple and more reliable than the rest of the ICE drivetrain. The big issue for all cars seems the same to me, and that is manufacturers all utilizing exclusive proprietary computer systems to make all service a reoccurring revenue stream. We may have a purchased our Ineos, but, really, the lack of open source for the important computer control means were always going home to papa for something to buy, and its just a fancy lease.

My point it the excess weight of being an SUV and then electric puts more stress on the components as underneath they are still only made for a normal saloon vehicle. Apparently Volvo are having similar issues as the cars leave the warranty, not substantial enough for SUV body. We also have excessive potholes and speed humps in UK that us killing shock absorbers.
My complexity issue is covering all modern cars but the electric vehicles seem to have even more electrical related gremlins.
An electric car maybe more simple than an engine but the European and American brands have been refining the engineering of their vehicles for decades, electric is all new to them and some are doing better than others.
I did think it was a shame that Fisker went bust, as an electric vehicle I thought it had promise.
Electric vehicles are perfect for shorter trips, long distances with shared driving it's a pain.

 

[Tazzieman]

@CRH what problems are the Volvos having? Which models, or all?
Wife's XC40 has been reliable and brilliant 3 years into ownership.
2 tyres the only expense. Blame low profile tyres and a single pothole for that.

 

[NQ94]

Nothing you mention failing has to do with an electric drive-train. You're complaining about the coachwork. A shitty car is a shitty car. Having spent 1/4 century installing industrial gensets, I have never had a customers generator fail. The cooling systems and Ice components are what dies. That and the controls eventually lack support, and the old fellas that know where to look on the boards retire.

At the very least, eliminating the starter and wedging an axial flux pancake between the ICE and tranny for a bounus 100ftlbs from takeoff seems like a no brainier. The parts are simple and more reliable than the rest of the ICE drivetrain. The big issue for all cars seems the same to me, and that is manufacturers all utilizing exclusive proprietary computer systems to make all service a reoccurring revenue stream. We may have a purchased our Ineos, but, really, the lack of open source for the important computer control means were always going home to papa for something to buy, and its just a fancy lease.

Done some work on fixed gensets over the years, never really saw failed generators, the engines always got high hours and wore out before the generator. Soon as alternators and motors were used in something mobile like an electric drive truck the component life would be considerably less. Something about bouncing around and large fluctuations in rpm and load must take its toll on the rotors/armatures when compared to fixed rpm constant load gen sets.