What do you think of the prices shared so far?

Elson

Founding Guard
Looks like there's a fair bit of difference in the prices dependent on where you are in the world, from what's on reddit. 

How do you feel about the cost? Is it priced right for what they've shared so far?

 

Appreciate these can change closer to the time as well, but hopefully they'll stay where they're at, or maybe even drop a bit more toward what was originally shared
 

Tazzieman

Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
Well 48k pounds translates to 89.5k AUD,  so that seems fair!Who knows what the extras will add , but most will be hard to resist , then there will be also be the need for towbars , bullbars , roof racks etc etcHopefully , quoting the old Rolls-Royce ad ,"the quality will remain long after the price is forgotten"

 

Elson

Founding Guard
Definitely a win on the exchange front!

That's true on the optional extras, but I agree with you on the quality vs timing. If this vehicle is going to be used for 20-30 years, the initial price becomes a bit of a moot point.
 

Spjnr

Reservation Holder
Founding Guard
Tazzieman said:
Well 48k pounds translates to 89.5k AUD,  so that seems fair!Who knows what the extras will add , but most will be hard to resist , then there will be also be the need for towbars , bullbars , roof racks etc etcHopefully , quoting the old Rolls-Royce ad ,"the quality will remain long after the price is forgotten"

I've been told by some inside guys at ineos that the towbar will be standard fitment. Whether this is true we'll find out!  I think it's a lot of vehicle for the money, and those moaning it should be 30k don't take into account how much more vehicle you get compared to an old defender etc
 

d1rty

Founding Guard
Based on UK/EUR numbers, the US price is likely to be in the $65-70k range.  That isn't cheap, but it's got high-end running gear and isn't out of line with competitors.

2022 Tundra TRD Pro is likely to be $65-70k
Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon isn't far off that
4 Door Bronco with all the offroad packages isn't far off that
Cybertruck Trimotor (also have a reservation on one of these) is $69k.

I'm really interested to see how the option prices shape up.  Hopefully we don't get screwed adding things like lockers and sliders.  I'd love to have that from the factory.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Founding Guard
I have a sweater I bought in Jasper National Park. It was the day I bought my first jeep, a little two door, so my wife and I did what everyone would do and we ditched the roof for a drive to the mountains. When we arrived the weather turned cold so we both needed sweaters.

These sweaters were not cheap - in fact it was the most expensive sweater I’ve ever owned - and at the time we hesitated to buy them, but we bit the bullet because it was really cold.

That was 11 years ago. I’ve worn that sweater every week, usually more than once a week, since that time.

From that perspective - cost per wear - it’s the cheapest sweater I own. 
If all we are promised is true about the Gren, it will be cheap like my sweater.
 

Spjnr

Reservation Holder
Founding Guard
That's a good way of looking at it. Same can be said for the land cruiser models that comfortably do 400k miles, with only routine maintenance.

I think this vehicle will really be a case of "you get what you pay for",  judging by the engineering thats gone into it.
 

Paachi

Founding Guard
The way I think of it is that we all bemoan the upcontented LC200 in the US priced at $85K with no options. It still lacks lockers and a solid front axle. But let’s say Toyota offered a decontented version of the LC200 (basically sans carpets, leather seats and fancy head unit) maybe they knock off $10K-$12K off it..the Grenadier would be within spitting distance. Now if the final price of the Gren with lockers, upgraded electrical panel and some nominal upgrades like utility belt, etc was $75K-78K..I think it would eat into the LC market. Which is where I think the Gren is squarely aimed at in the US market. It isn’t a rock crawler. It’s squarely a tourer aimed at the rich overlanding community. 
of course it isn’t proven as a robust platform as the Land Cruiser. But neither is the raptor or the Jeep rubicon but that didn’t stop people buying them by the boat loads
my 2 cents. Worth less after 5;00 PM
 

Elson

Founding Guard
Spjnr said:
I've been told by some inside guys at ineos that the towbar will be standard fitment. Whether this is true we'll find out!  I think it's a lot of vehicle for the money, and those moaning it should be 30k don't take into account how much more vehicle you get compared to an old defender etc

That'd be a nice touch on the towbar. You're right about the 'car for the money' when the R&D is considered. Look at Tesla for example, the price of the model S was huge when it came out, but those who stumped up for something different and unproven have paved the way for the cheaper cars and what we see today.At least in our case, one of the early cars hasn't broken whilst on a test route, filmed by a major BBC car-based TV show, haha. 
ChasingOurTrunks said:
These sweaters were not cheap - in fact it was the most expensive sweater I’ve ever owned - and at the time we hesitated to buy them, but we bit the bullet because it was really cold.

That was 11 years ago. I’ve worn that sweater every week, usually more than once a week, since that time.

From that perspective - cost per wear - it’s the cheapest sweater I own. 

Love that idea, for a vehicle people might keep for the next 20-30 years (reasonably), it should be great. I'm seeing a fair few people on here who are driving vehicles knocking into double decades, so there's definitely that longer term view in mind for many buyers! 
Paachi said:
of course it isn’t proven as a robust platform as the Land Cruiser. But neither is the raptor or the Jeep rubicon but that didn’t stop people buying them by the boat loads

Exactly Paachi, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure the 'brand' presence of Toyota and Jeep helped there, and I see Ineos doing similar kind of brand advertising with Bosch and Magna Steyr which I'm sure will go a long way in helping the discussions when people talk about how 'unproven' Ineos is in comparison.So long as something like the TFL Defender disaster doesn't happen on buyers'/influencers' long-term reviews, I think Ineos should be able to weather the unproven/unreliable issues/fears that some will have.
 

Michael Gain

Founding Guard
I was reading last night that Ineos will offer workshop manuals and wiring schematics for vehicle owners--for free.

That level of transparency, and support to those that wrench, is worth a heftier price tag IMO. 

I just hope that it is as in-depth and user friendly as Topix.
 

hweebe

Founding Guard
In Australia $84.5k plus options, tax and inroads will likely bring it to $100k and will be in direct completion with defender and Lc300. It will need to be priced sharper to get a foothold over the Toyota.
 

Stu_Barnes

Staff member
Reservation Holder
hweebe said:
In Australia $84.5k plus options, tax and inroads will likely bring it to $100k and will be in direct completion with defender and Lc300. It will need to be priced sharper to get a foothold over the Toyota.

Or be cheaper and easier to maintain after the warranty period has expired......
 

chaos

Founding Guard
As you start looking at the target prices and compare them to what the other choices are, I don't think Ineos is that far off.  First, we don't even know if we are going to get the LC 300 in the US.  Second, fully equipped Jeep Wrangler Rubicons are near 60K and the new Tundra is right in line with 60K.  I think they are really close.  I'm loving the idea of a 2 door version like a 70 Series Troopy, which we don't get in the US either.   

I'm hoping to make mine more like a little camper so hope that I can get a camper conversion.  We have a company in Colorado called Campteq that has done roof top conversions for the Land Cruisers so hopefully he will be willing to give it a try.  (I'm willing to have him hack off my roof!)
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Founding Guard
Elson said:
So long as something like the TFL Defender disaster doesn't happen on buyers'/influencers' long-term reviews, I think Ineos should be able to weather the unproven/unreliable issues/fears that some will have.

I wanted to keep my Jeep for 20-30 years, but the jeep just wasn't robust enough to do it. Had to get rid of it right after the 270k kms mark if I remember correctly, and I could have kept it going but it would have needed an incredibly in-depth rebuild; suspension, drivetrain, engine was throwing codes like rice at a wedding, seats were collapsed and uncomfortable, interior was extremely worn, etc.. Granted, we drove it hard for this 270k kms, harder than most Jeeps, but about as hard as a Land Cruiser in a bush context would be used. The LCs will go for that distance with minimal need for rebuild beyond regular maintenance. They are just in a different class of rig. I'm hopeful that the Gren is in that same class (and based on what I've seen, it is).

As to the influencers, the best thing Ineos can do is give the likes of TFL a prototype Gren for a few weeks shakedown. Any problems that come from it are "Well it's still a prototype", TFL get's a "scoop", and all of us get valuable info. It's a win-win.
 

Paachi

Founding Guard
I really do hope it gets priced at a point where it can be used and doesn’t become a platform that is best leveraged as a second or third ownership car (Land Rover) or an Uber rich persons toy (LC200).


I don’t want it to be built to a price point driven by the bean counters. That’s the problem with the new Bronco. Look at its interiors..I am afraid to think if they extended that philosophy to the durability. But at the same time I don’t want greed or unnecessary upcontenting pricing it way out of reasonable rationale.

To that end a $75K USD for a mechanically well specced version is a fair price I think. 

As for the prototype testing in the US I do agree TFL would be a good avenue to explore. They seem transparent and least influenced by manufacturer soundtrack. Although I do think they haven’t stepped the game on production quality and content delivery and content depth for that matter. They seem to be playing a volumes game. Savagegeese (more suited for sports cars) is a channel that I have seen grow from strength to strength and really up their game on depth and quality. They aren’t that hand on with 4x4s though. I would love to see folks at Wanderlost Overland maybe be one of the influencers to get it for a long term review. They really give a “how is it to live with” perspective which I value immensely. 
I would also love to see them give it to Ronny Dahl from Australia. I really respect his POV.   
 

d1rty

Founding Guard
As long as we're name dropping influencers we'd like to see get an early Grenadier, I'd much rather see Ryan Douthit and Driving Sports get one.  And in Australia (now), we certainly can't skip Andrew St. Pierre White from 4xOverland can we?
 

Tazzieman

Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
ASPW is a serial philanderer when it comes to cars! They should hook him up to a live blood pressure monitor. LOL we enjoy his rants!But he's got a few miles on the clock,  so that counts for something.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Founding Guard
d1rty said:
As long as we're name dropping influencers we'd like to see get an early Grenadier, I'd much rather see Ryan Douthit and Driving Sports get one.  And in Australia (now), we certainly can't skip Andrew St. Pierre White from 4xOverland can we?

ASPW is both high risk but high reward, and I think the risk is significantly mitigated the sooner he gets involved. The reason I say it's high risk is similar to my position on getting the other influencers involved -- if they do it when it's still in "testing", they have the opportunity to address any obvious, glaring feedback that these guys have. However, where the TFL crew goes for clicks and don't really seem to know a ton about Overland travel (Though they are getting much, much better than their early days, and I personally really enjoy their approach as it demonstrates their learning and they actually have a pretty good handle on some of the off-road stuff now), ASPW has hundreds of thousands of miles on his odometer -- there is no one in the Influencer/YouTube sphere with more knowledge than him world-wide as far as I have seen (there may well be more knowledgeable people who don't do YouTube channels but I'm specifically talking about the 'major' YouTubers). 

I've met people who dislike ASPW's approach or style, but I've never found anyone whose been able to prove him factually wrong. He knows his stuff, and his take on the Grenadier is the only one that really matters to me -- the others I would filter through an aggressive lens, but Andrew has earned my trust as an expert and it would take an egregious series of unaddressed errors on his part for that to change, and that's my favourite part about Andrew - when something doesn't work, even if it's his own design or idea, he's the first to call it out. That's why I'd love for him to get behind the wheel of the Grenadier - even if he gets something wrong, which is highly unlikely, we can generally trust him to correct it at a later date.
 
I did a build on the UK Web site and did a rough conversion to $US and come to approx. the same $75k number.  I also added another $10k for transportation and taxes, so on the road at about $85k seems to be reasonable.  I also spec'ed a Rubicon and previously I did the same for the new Defender to see where I would end up.  A Jeep with a similar level of equipment to the Grenadier was $10k less, the new Defender about $10k more, so I think that's the right ballpark. 
I'll also use mine for camping and long distance exploring in colder climates so it's equipped as such.  Not intending to use it for serious rock crawling or similar.

Now the waiting period begins...
 
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