Useless Customer Service

[DaveB]

So like I said total bunk. I also have it from the VP if Ineos that as long as We have receipts we can change our own oil. This notion that only the manufacturers can change your oil or service your vehicle is long over. It’s about proving it was done on time and with the correct parts.

You missed the part about it being done by a qualified mechanic.
I assume this also includes supervised by a qualified mechanic.
From memory you are a qualified mechanic I recall??
Also Canadian law may be different to Australian law.
So any manufacturer in Australia could potentially refuse your warranty if it wasn't done by at least a qualified mechanic.
Normally a manufacturer/assembler like Ineos will rely on a back to back warranty with their parts supplier.
So even if Ineos say go ahead anyone can do it they may not get the warranty from their parts supplier.

In Australia I am speaking of.

I spent 10 seconds looking at Canada and this is what I found.

 

[landmannnn]

Slightly off topic, but on the UK there is no requirement for any qualifications to be a car mechanic.
Courses are of course available.
Is it the same elsewhere?

 

[Jeremy996]

Slightly off topic, but on the UK there is no requirement for any qualifications to be a car mechanic.
Courses are of course available.
Is it the same elsewhere?

No - some countries are very strict about what constitutes a car mechanic. The UK is quite slack; anyone can claim to be a car mechanic and take money from retail customers. They would be wise to have insurance against negligence but it is not criminal offence to not have it. Certain activities require specific qualifications, like being an MOT examiner, but in general any Tom, Dick or Harry can attack your car with a spanner!

 

[Tazzieman]

Certain activities require specific qualifications, like being an MOT examiner, but in general any Tom, Dick or Harry can attack your car with a spanner!

Mr MOT will quickly use the spanner to undo all the shade tree work!
In the state where I live , anyone can work on their car and there is no MOT/RWC.
The vast majority of accidents are caused by distracted/inexperienced (often young), intoxicated or tired drivers , and visitors unused used to driving on the left on twisty roads. Mechanical issues are rarely the cause.

 

[Andrew Kilby]

There are a more than a few retired or semi retired Lawyers who are owners of Grens. I met a couple recently and they were tossing up the idea of starting a Class Action primarily focused on "not fit for purpose" because of the contradiction between the built for outback travel and the inability to get basic maintenance and repairs outside the very narrow service and repair support. Sounds a bit extreme to me (and the numbers are probably not enough to get a CA yet) but one thing I learned some time ago was don't upset a lawyer with too much time on their hands.

Perhaps we will be contacted.

 

[Deleted member 9052558]

There are a more than a few retired or semi retired Lawyers who are owners of Grens. I met a couple recently and they were tossing up the idea of starting a Class Action primarily focused on "not fit for purpose" because of the contradiction between the built for outback travel and the inability to get basic maintenance and repairs outside the very narrow service and repair support. Sounds a bit extreme to me (and the numbers are probably not enough to get a CA yet) but one thing I learned some time ago was don't upset a lawyer with too much time on their hands.

Perhaps we will be contacted.

I’m in the USA, so maybe things are a little different over here. Would love for any of these retired or semi retired lawyers to comment on here. I have two questions for any of them on this class action suit they were discussing:

1–so you purchased this vehicle knowing the limited repair service and repair support at that time (nothing written down on paper guaranteeing of any future improvements in these areas), and now you don’t like it hasn’t improved yet & feel Ineos will be financial liable for this?
2–we all signed what 50 pages of paperwork to buy one. I assume somewhere in those pages we all signed are clauses prepared by Ineos lawyers to prevent such liability? (I will admit freely now I didn’t read every single page, but I know some probably did)

Hey I live 4 hours one way to the closest dealership and no one wants the service or repair support to get better than me, but I’m also a grown ass man who purchased two of these vehicles knowing all of this. Do I want a dealership in Louisiana, yes. Do I want a repair manual, of course. Do I want maybe some agreement with BMW or service centers across the USA to work on my rides, absolutely. However, none of these were guaranteed and I bought into it anyway. I may be in the smaller number of members that think like this, but I am optimistic that all of this will improve in time. This is a brand new vehicle and growing year by year. Yes we had a production halt, but shit happens. I have faith, like I did that they would re-open, that the manual is coming as well as service centers. Time will tell…….

 

[[ Adam ]]

There are so many threads going on about the steering - I decided perhaps this is the correct one to post at...


Today I dropped my Grenadier off for replacement of the tell tale display, and hopefully some level of diagnosis with the HVAC, though it seems unlikely (according to my service manager) that replacing the unit solves the problem. Over the weekend, I turned 19000 miles, and so I'd say my Grenadier is well broken in at this point.

As a loaner, they gave me a base model grenadier with less than 400 miles on it. One thing I noticed immediately was - the steering. It is noticeably different than mine. Obviously with 19k miles in less than a year, I've spent a fair amount of time driving a Grenadier. My first move was to pull over and double check the steering damper - I was sure it must have been replaced with an aftermarket. Nope, factory. I then checked the tire pressures - 38/39 all around.

@anand has previously postulated that the steering dampers have some sort of "break in period", where it softens up, return to center gets better, and driving becomes more normal. I think that might be the case - I'll do my best to put some miles on this thing, but there does seem to be a difference between brand new and well worn.

 

[Deleted member 9052558]

There are so many threads going on about the steering - I decided perhaps this is the correct one to post at...


Today I dropped my Grenadier off for replacement of the tell tale display, and hopefully some level of diagnosis with the HVAC, though it seems unlikely (according to my service manager) that replacing the unit solves the problem. Over the weekend, I turned 19000 miles, and so I'd say my Grenadier is well broken in at this point.

As a loaner, they gave me a base model grenadier with less than 400 miles on it. One thing I noticed immediately was - the steering. It is noticeably different than mine. Obviously with 19k miles in less than a year, I've spent a fair amount of time driving a Grenadier. My first move was to pull over and double check the steering damper - I was sure it must have been replaced with an aftermarket. Nope, factory. I then checked the tire pressures - 38/39 all around.

@anand has previously postulated that the steering dampers have some sort of "break in period", where it softens up, return to center gets better, and driving becomes more normal. I think that might be the case - I'll do my best to put some miles on this thing, but there does seem to be a difference between brand new and well worn.

What happened to your TT display? You opting for a larger one with even more warning signs?! I joke I joke I kid I kid..

 

[[ Adam ]]

What happened to your TT display? You opting for a larger one with even more warning signs?! I joke I joke I kid I kid..

Intermittently, it fails to work on start up.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSOSS2Y5W8c

 

[anand]

@anand has previously postulated that the steering dampers have some sort of "break in period", where it softens up, return to center gets better, and driving becomes more normal. I think that might be the case - I'll do my best to put some miles on this thing, but there does seem to be a difference between brand new and well worn.

Perhaps I'll be able to add some miles to it next week

 

[AngusMacG]

There are so many threads going on about the steering - I decided perhaps this is the correct one to post at...


Today I dropped my Grenadier off for replacement of the tell tale display, and hopefully some level of diagnosis with the HVAC, though it seems unlikely (according to my service manager) that replacing the unit solves the problem. Over the weekend, I turned 19000 miles, and so I'd say my Grenadier is well broken in at this point.

As a loaner, they gave me a base model grenadier with less than 400 miles on it. One thing I noticed immediately was - the steering. It is noticeably different than mine. Obviously with 19k miles in less than a year, I've spent a fair amount of time driving a Grenadier. My first move was to pull over and double check the steering damper - I was sure it must have been replaced with an aftermarket. Nope, factory. I then checked the tire pressures - 38/39 all around.

@anand has previously postulated that the steering dampers have some sort of "break in period", where it softens up, return to center gets better, and driving becomes more normal. I think that might be the case - I'll do my best to put some miles on this thing, but there does seem to be a difference between brand new and well worn.

I am over 34k and found the steering has adjusted tho doesnt return to center fully on its own just needs a little assistance. When I first had mine it was definitely more work to bring it back to center.

 

[INEOS OG]

I was told it is a warranty legal issue they are trying to get around.
The warranty relies on the services getting done.
Which requires proof that the services have been done by a competent person and to the required specs.
If anyone can just reset the service indicator then what proof is there that a service was actually done.
This isn't what Ineos originally wanted but like a few other things it has been forced on them.

But it isn't, at least in the US. Obviously the service must be able to be verifiable but US owners can have service done DIY or any local shop under the Magnuson-Moss Act.

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/statutes/magnuson-moss-warranty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act

 

[Znarfgh]

There are so many threads going on about the steering - I decided perhaps this is the correct one to post at...


Today I dropped my Grenadier off for replacement of the tell tale display, and hopefully some level of diagnosis with the HVAC, though it seems unlikely (according to my service manager) that replacing the unit solves the problem. Over the weekend, I turned 19000 miles, and so I'd say my Grenadier is well broken in at this point.

As a loaner, they gave me a base model grenadier with less than 400 miles on it. One thing I noticed immediately was - the steering. It is noticeably different than mine. Obviously with 19k miles in less than a year, I've spent a fair amount of time driving a Grenadier. My first move was to pull over and double check the steering damper - I was sure it must have been replaced with an aftermarket. Nope, factory. I then checked the tire pressures - 38/39 all around.

@anand has previously postulated that the steering dampers have some sort of "break in period", where it softens up, return to center gets better, and driving becomes more normal. I think that might be the case - I'll do my best to put some miles on this thing, but there does seem to be a difference between brand new and well worn.

What tyres did the loaner have? The Bridgestone's provide a different ride to the BFG's.

 

[DaveB]

But it isn't, at least in the US. Obviously the service must be able to be verifiable but US owners can have service done DIY or any local shop under the Magnuson-Moss Act.

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/statutes/magnuson-moss-warranty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act

So how do you verify the service was done if anyone can reset it at any time?
Surely nobody would be stupid enough to put in a warranty claim without resetting the service notification.
I think any local service shop that has the necessary training and qualifications should be able to reset it, but not just any person.
Just because your ACT gives you the "right" to do something, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
If I am buying a second hand vehicle I would want to know that the services were done by someone qualified to do them, not just by Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob.

 

[INEOS OG]

So how do you verify the service was done if anyone can reset it at any time?
Surely nobody would be stupid enough to put in a warranty claim without resetting the service notification.
I think any local service shop that has the necessary training and qualifications should be able to reset it, but not just any person.
Just because your ACT gives you the "right" to do something, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
If I am buying a second hand vehicle I would want to know that the services were done by someone qualified to do them, not just by Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob.

The service reset means nothing, service records are your friend. Are you suggesting the 20 something Ineos service tech making $20 an hour is more capable than you are?

Whether you are capable / qualified to service your vehicle, many here are and not for being cost averse. This forum is replete with stories of botched or inept service experiences, but what about those who live hours or more away from a dealership? What about the owrners who only drive a thousand miles a year?

For all of these reasons and many more we have the right to self service or chose a shop, even one run by someone called "Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob" whatever that is supposed to mean.

 

[IslandFalconer]

So how do you verify the service was done if anyone can reset it at any time?
Surely nobody would be stupid enough to put in a warranty claim without resetting the service notification.
I think any local service shop that has the necessary training and qualifications should be able to reset it, but not just any person.
Just because your ACT gives you the "right" to do something, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
If I am buying a second hand vehicle I would want to know that the services were done by someone qualified to do them, not just by Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob.

It’s called keeping receipts. Unfortunately folks like you who believe only shops with service techs know how to do things properly make companies like Ineos happy. They’ve got you believing that your warranty only works if the shop did it.
Service reset is available on Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, all those can be user reset. And let’s be clear those are far higher end than a grenadier. So if you’re happy to pay for oil changes that’s cool. I’ll keep servicing my own.

 

[INEOS OG]

It’s called keeping receipts. Unfortunately folks like you who believe only shops with service techs know how to do things properly make companies like Ineos happy. They’ve got you believing that your warranty only works if the shop did it.
Service reset is available on Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, all those can be user reset. And let’s be clear those are far higher end than a grenadier. So if you’re happy to pay for oil changes that’s cool. I’ll keep servicing my own.

100% I cannot imagine following the Ineos service schedule. My first oil / filter change was at 1,050 miles when I replaced the drain plug and filter housing with magnetic units. i wil change the oil and filter each 5,000 miles or 12 months hereafter.

I will do my diffential fluid at 5,000 miles along with iron differential covers, front and rear. By that time I will be 18 months into ownership with 2 oil changes and 6 months "overdue" for service.

 

[NQ94]

So how do you verify the service was done if anyone can reset it at any time?
Surely nobody would be stupid enough to put in a warranty claim without resetting the service notification.
I think any local service shop that has the necessary training and qualifications should be able to reset it, but not just any person.
Just because your ACT gives you the "right" to do something, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
If I am buying a second hand vehicle I would want to know that the services were done by someone qualified to do them, not just by Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob.

In reality the person doing the service and being trained is Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob the 1st year apprentice or one of Albo's new residents. The service adviser or tradie's job is to give the customer the confidence of a correctly completed service.

 

[INEOS OG]

In reality the person doing the service and being trained is Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob the 1st year apprentice or one of Albo's new residents. The service adviser or tradie's job is to give the customer the confidence of a correctly completed service.

I have dozens well credentialed ASE Service Centers in my area I may use but servicing the Grenadier for the first five years is simple stuff.